Manners and basic decency

now that IS really nice.

I don't recall any instances of extreme rudeness lately which have been any worse than in previous years...

The rudest individual I ever encountered was when I was a child of about 7. I was in a supermarket with my parents, and an elderly man obviously decided I was in his way so shoved me and knocked me flying into the shelves. I was so shocked I started crying, but my Dad who hadn't seen me get knocked over just shouted at me for making a fuss. Probably from the man's point of view I was an ill-mannered brat who got in his way - however I was just standing in a place he happened to want to walk through, and I didn't appreciate that walking round someone is not so easy for people with mobility problems. If he'd asked me to move I would have done so, but he didn't necessarily know that.

Edited for spelling.

The tube every morning bugs me. Why do people insist upon trying to push their way onto the train while people are getting off? And why is it, when I stand back and let people off, either I get shoved from behind and tutted at, or people push past me to get on. Nobbers! I've also told people off for not giving up their seat for an elderly, disabled or pregnant person and I will always give up mine in a heartbeat.

However, the man in my local sandwich shop is very nice. I go in there every day and he is always smiling and polite and gives me little freebies to take away.

When I was in Hosp for a few days with baby our neighbours noticed our parking ticket had run out and quietly got up every morning and put a new one of their visitors parking vouchers under the windscreen wiper.

My 3 year old, who has fantastic manners is constantly being showered with sweets (gah) and little extras by the ladies in the park cafe because he's so polite. So that's really nice of them.

People always always offer to help if there are steps anywhere and I have the buggy.

Those are all baby related, but the list goes on. People are so nice, and I have utter faith in human nature. Not every day of course, and why can't people indicate, but other than that it's generally mostly good.

Absolutely, especially the bit about being pushed or 'tutted' at if you try and wait. I very rarely get the tube in rush hour now if I can possibly help it - I work in central London but walk or get the bus everywhere if I can, even if it takes longer.

I always try and help with buggies (likewise people struggling with loads of luggage) and continue to be shocked at how many people don't.

I've had some lovely moments from complete strangers, mostly concerning the girls and our pushchair. We used to live on the first floor, which meant taking a baby up at a time, then taking any shopping up, then finally the pram. I had thighs of steel! ? Often, people passing by would offer to help me up, which was lovely. Once, old Bert from downstairs helped me up - I tried to persuade him otherwise, but he wouldn't take no for an answer! Poor old chap, I don't think he was right for a week after!

Of course, we've had our bad moments with the pram too - usually combined with public transport. When the girls were 10 days old, we had a hospital appointment and I had to get on a bus. It was mobbed and I had to wrestle the pram on, with no assistance. I had to squeeze the pram into the buggy slot and I banged a ladies legs in the passing. She had a right strop at me! Then I had to stand all the way home. *TMI* I thought my insides where going to fall out, I ached so much. I think that was probably the lowest point ever for me.

Other public transport beauties include people not allowing me off before squeezing on the train, causing me to miss my stop! And everyone fecking off and leaving me stranded on a platform with a double pram when they realised the lift was broken. And I get doors slammed in my face more often than I care to think. I always look behind me before I let a door go, it isn't difficult!

By the way, don't think too badly of mums who don't say thankyou for moving out their way. I've neglected to do it myself before, sometimes you just don't realise until it's too late.

I am absolutely mortified if either of my children act up in public or in a restaurant. But I have never had a bad experience on the tube, people are always willing to help which is fantastic and I always thank them (I get very panicky that I haven't thanked people so I usually over thank!). I also always apologise when (if only that was an if!) P gets in people's way. I am dreading P needing to go to the loo whilst out, we have a porta-potty for her but I am so aware that it isn't nice for her to be sat on it in the middle of everything but she is still at the "if she has to go, she has to go" stage.

I was most relieved to see they have changed the pictures on the tube to include pg women (at least I think they have, I am sure I noticed new signs last time I was there). I got on once when I was huge with P and there were no seats and none forthcoming, the guy in the priority seat looked up, checked my bump, looked behind him to check the sign, sighed and went back to his book ?. It was only stop and I was too astounded to say anything.

I've been resisting the temptation to start moaning about manners and public transport as I'll never stop once I get going. One of the worst was a woman (not a typical commuter type and aged about 60) who before the doors of the train had even opened had her hands on my back trying to push me on. I went all fishwife on her and told her she had the manners of a pig. Fark me, she only did it again to me the next day. I went even more fishwife on her and after that she started using a different set of doors to me ?

I get so frustrated and annoyed with pedestrians in York. There is a specific area crossing the river where pedestrians seem to forget that motor vehicles actually have right of way on a road and just walk out in front of you. Sometimes they are trying to take a picture of the Minster and so stand in the road to do it. It's not even a quiet road. I tend to end up driving with my window open and shouting fish-wife style "it's a road, it's for cars" rather loudly, which probably makes them think I'm rude but when you are encountering at least twice a day and gets very, very irritating.

My key bugbear at the moment is people walking into me in shops - and it seems to mainly be M&S. I was with my mum, I'm pregnant and had had an operation so was walking quite slowly. About 5 times older, posh Cheshire ladies - with gold shoes - would bang in to me. By the third time I loudly commented to my mum that I must be invisible but she told me to be quiet. Not one of those women even acknowledged that she'd done it, a quick "sorry" would have been fine.

But then, we went to London the other week. I was dreading the tube and as prepared to ask for a seat. When we go on there were people sat in each of the priority seats who didn't even bat an eyelid. H started looking around for a seat for me at which point a young man in the middle of the carriage stood up and asked if I'd like a seat. As I was making my way towards it someone else pushed passed and sat down. The man who'd offered the seat actually turned to them and said "I was giving my seat up for this lady" and told him to move. I was most impressed. Chivalry is alive and well.

I never had a bad experience when I was pregnant - people always let me sit down etc. The most lovely was this really old, old man who walked with two sticks who insisted on helping me off the bus - I wasn't sure who was helping who but it was lovely all the same.

The worst was two weeks ago in York. I was in Borders and went up to the childrens books on the top floor, on my own with large pram. Got back to the lift and it was now out of order.

I asked the guy how I could get down and could someone help me and he said he wasn't allowed to for health and safety. So I said "well how am I supposed to get down?" And asked if he could help me carry the pram if I folded it. So he ummed and ahhed so I said don't bother and some really nice guy helped me down

Seriously WTF?!

Aren't pregnant women already covered by the phrase 'people carrying children'? I always assumed they were, even if the picture was of a person with a child in their arms.

Manners is one of the things I am uber strict about with our kids. They have had it drilled into them from a very early age that manners cost nothing and mean everything. We are regularly complimented on how polite our children are. However, I have been warned that they may have a sudden manners bypass when they hit puberty. I am bracing myself.

I think one of the things that bothers me most is the people who think it is ok to hawk up huge great big gobbets of phlegm in the middle of the street. You can hear them preparing their throats and balling it all up before they lob it out onto the floor. Why? It is one of the most disgusting, ill-mannered, foul things I can think of. When did it become acceptable for people to spit all over the place like this?

Commuting when massively pregnant is utterly sh1te and does seem to bring out the worst in some people, I agree. Sometimes I would get the underground, not get a seat and then I would have to walk up the stairs when I got off and I could hear people huffing and puffing behind me cos I was obviously too slow and they were trying to get past. I used to think blimey, have a bit of patience will you. Let's see how fast you walk while having a large bowling ball strapped to your belly and something headbutting you in the bladder.

We used to have a postdoc in the lab that did this into the lab sink every morning. We had to have words to explain that it wasn't polite here.

My ex is nine years older than me, and once pointed out that she technically ticked all three boxes requiring people to give up their bus seats to her, being elderly, disabled and accompanied by a child (i.e. me). ?

I think I've posted this before, but one of my more satisfying comeback-to-rudeness experiences was when I ran a cinema and this well-dressed woman bought a ticket while snacking on a piece of fried chicken - and then casually tossed the box in front of the cash desk, complete with half-chewed chicken sticking out. The cashier summoned me, and I said "Would you recognise her when she comes out?" (it was the first show, so the audience was barely in double figures), and when told yes, I deliberately hung around in the foyer until she was pointed out to me, then handed her the box and said "I believe this is yours". She looked more startled than embarrassed, but realised that it was a fair cop when she recognised two witnesses from earlier (one of the ushers also saw her), and so left without saying anything.

Not necessarily. While some teens do feel the need to sink to the lowest level to fit in, that's isn't all of them.

Number 4 and 5 brothers are 14 and 16 and both have very good manners - except to us big siblings ?- my mum is always receiving compliments about what polite young men they are when they have been to stay at other people's, for example. Maybe it helps that they live in a tiny village where everyone knows my Mum and it would definitely get back to her if they were rude, but I don't think it's an inevitability.

Only last week in fact! I was taking the bus home from work and a woman (around 30ish) got on the bus with her 2 children who proceeded to not only run up and down the aisle of the bus but the little girl (around 6) had a brolly which she was swinging around and hit an elderly lady in the eye. The mother didn't even apologise for her daughters behaviour just shouted (fishwife styleeee) "oh my god u little b*****d get over here now, stop playing up" the elderly lady was obviously shaken up but the mother still didnt get up and say anything, just got her mobile out and started chatting to one of her friends, in the end the driver stopped the bus and ordered them off, in front of everyone as the children were still playing up. I ended up (along with another girl) walking the elderly lady to her house and made sure she was ok.

Common courtesy and manners it seems have long gone with some people.

But on the other hand, my sister and i were shopping last weekend and a young lad (about 16/17) came running up behind us, tapped my sister on the shoulder and gave her back her purse that she had dropped, everything was still in it, cash, cards etc nothing had been touched. (Not accusing every teenager of stealing but she did have about £200 in there) She was so grateful she ended up giving him a tenner!

Lucky Moonshine - that's appalling.

It does certainly seem as if there are a lot of very rude people around! I've a 2year old and a buggy when we're out and have lost count of the number of doors I've had slammed in my face. How hard is it to glance over your shoulder and check that there's no one behind you? Equally, there are a lot of people that do hold the door of course.

Children, hmm. Well have 3, aged 2-19 years. We're just hitting the "terrible twos" and it has resulted in some tantrums while we're out, but I deal with them swiftly as I'm very aware that people don't want to listen to my madam screaming! She does behave very well when we eat out however, which I think is very important.

My middle son is 17, and is lovely! We moved a few months ago, and took loads of items to the local dump. I normally ended up hefting it on my own because he'd spot some little old lady who needed a hand bless him.

I probably see as many rude young people as I do middle aged and older. Middle aged and older in my experience tend to just to outright rude, whereas young come in two categories - rude, and simply oblivious. Of course, being oblivious is rude too, but it's annoying in a different way than to people who actually quite deliberately are rude.

Yesterday, I was leaving a shop with a heavily pregnant woman, we reached the door first, we were together, I went through ahead of her (not barging, I promise!) and then a young lad of about 16 managed to go in before she could come out - which meant her reversing, she was partly through the door! She only didn't stand her ground because she didn't want to physical push against him 'in her condition'. It would have been rude whether she was pregnant or not!

I really wanted to twist his flipping ear round and give him a lecture!

The problem is, though, when older people are rude I'll have a go at them; with younger ones I won't because I'm too worried thay'll knife me.

I've met quite a few polite children recently, holding doors open etc. My rudest one was an adult women, she rang the veterinary practice were I work, explained the dog had run out of mediation and needed them but as it was 6 pm and she had no car until 7 pm (and we closed at 6.30pm) that she was really stuck. I offered to drop them off on my way home, I got to the house, knocked on the door, door open, tablet bottle was snatched out of my hand and the door shut in my face - no acknowledgement at all. I was ?. Reminded me of Grandad from Bread.

Oooh, I feel for you - rudeness is so much worse when you've gone out of your way to help someone. I used to work weekends in a shop - a couple of times when we were out of stock of something, rather than charging the customer for a stock transfer from another store, I explained I was at university 20 miles away, and could pick the item up in the week and bring it in the following Saturday.

I stopped offering in the end, because I'd almost invariably get looked at like I was the least helpful person in the universe, and get a load of snotty complaints about that not being soon enough, and couldn't I drop it in sooner - or hand deliver it to their house. A couple of times I thought f-it, and explained that I'd just offered to use up about an hour of my (unpaid) time and petrol to help them out, and a thanks (even if a thanks but no thanks) would have been nice. And that was all middle aged and upwards people.

It's my opinion that DIY store customers are the rudest of the lot.

Basic decency? I was going to post about this yesterday but managed to restrain myself ?

I was sitting in the car in a Parent & Child space while my Mum was in the supermarket. Mini Mal was asleep in his carseat in the back and he has been ill this week, so instead of disturbing him we just let him sleep.

I sat there for half an hour and watched no less than 10 people park in the spaces, with no child in the car. In fact of all the people who parked there, only one actually had a kid. I was raging, those spaces are meant for a purpose, not so some greasy workman can get to the chippy more quickly. Grrrrrrrrr.

(Some parked in disabled spaces too which were behind me, but I know you can't tell if a person is disabled just by looking..... I would bet though that none of them were)

In my experience, there is a certain sort of middle class woman who is ruder than some teenager can ever be. It's a general "*** you" attitude to the world that manifests itself in odd ways (from driving and parking like thoughtless morons to treating their nannies/cleaners like scum to braying too loudly in restaurants and annoying everyone). It's also got a nasty "them and us" element to it, as if people below a certain social rung weren't deserving of basic courtesy. Having a "*** you" attitude to the world is bad enough when you're a disenfranchised youth to whom the world offers very little, but in someone who is materially privileged it's even more objectionable. Urgh.

You see it a lot here actually- fifty year old women dressed in Chanel with horrible little rat-like dogs which they allow to *** all over the streets. Grim grim grim.

worms etc.

anyway, i do this (but never in a disabled bay), and will continue to do so.

Oh don't even get me started on dogshiit. I watched a woman in my Mum's street walk about 2 houses along and then let her rat of a dog shiit in a neighbours front garden. How disgusting and rude. Why do these people never let the dog do it in their own garden but it is OK to do it in someone elses? This guy's garden is lovely too, imaging him sticking his hands in that when out gardening. Bleeuughghgh.

(Ps I don't know how to swear any more ?

*steps over worms*

Um - sorry to have a bit of a go, but whether you 'believe' in P&C spaces or not... does that not mean that you were taking one up when you had no need to?!!

Quite ?- why would you use one if you were leaving the child in the car?

I know, I did it myself before Mini Mal came along, and I had no idea then. Thats why I said about decency. The spaces are a courtesy and it is about having enough space to get the door wide enough to get the child in the carseat. It's impossible in a normal space.

We don't need to be closer, we need more room, so I think they should move them away from the front and it would stop people from doing this. Sometimes if the spaces are full then I have to park miles away from the supermarket doors, which in itself isn't a problem, but it is so that I get the room to open the door. I usually park on the end o a row so that nobody else will be on that particular side.

I m not going to argue as its been done to death, but i m mad that i missed the point that MG and KN have highlighted ?

That's why I explained that he crashed out, just as we were going to get him out of the car as it happens ? If he woke up I would have got him out and then went in. But in a normal space I would have had no room to do so.