Medical people / End Stage Cancer - SENS

I'm not a medical person and I can't offer any good advice, Zebedee, but my a close family member of mine has incurable cancer and I just wanted to offer a useless ? . I think that you need to confirm whether the Oncologist actually spoke to your dad, and if they did whether it was possible that he might have had a good dose of Morphine when they spoke to him. Perhaps that could affect his perception? Other than that the only experieince I can draw on is that my ill relative will not speak about the prognosis almost as if saying it makes it a reality. That said, she is in remission atm so perhaps it is just not appropriate to discuss it. Sorry for the ramble. Have another ?

Another useless ? from me..

Just before xmas I lost my granddad (farfar) and during the last week or so he was high on Morphine pretty much all the time, together with sleeping tablets (his request). He did some very odd things as well to begin with as the doctors were trying to figure out what dose they should give him of the morphine, and to make sure it wasn't reacting badly with his other medication.. Morphine can do funny things to people, just make them more groggy and confused. But, to my knowledge, I don't think he was in pain, which is the main thing..

? xxx

I have no idea about the medical stuff, I just wanted to give you a hug. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult this must be for you all.

?

I'm so sorry to hear this. I'd second vicsteroooo's suggestion of talking to Macmillan. They are fantastic. Not sure Vic's link is right though: http://www.macmillan.org.uk/

Thanks all. I've been reading the Macmillan / Cancerbackup sites a lot over the last week. Today's news wasn't a huge shock - my dad's reaction / behaviour is.

I guess there are various possibilities;

- They explained but he's in denial

- They explained but he's confused from medications or even the cancer affecting his cognitive skills

- They didn't explain straightforwardly enough or used words/phrases that were hard to understand, perhaps in a misguided way to not make him feel too bad about it all.

I wonder if the 2nd is most likely from everything you've said. Sorry to ask this, but is it a sort of cancer that can spread to the brain? If he does have personality change I'd be asking them if this is a possibility, as even once active treatment isn't appropriate sometimes a one off dose of radiotherapy can improve things.

? to you, it sounds so hard.

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. I would echo what others have said about Macmillan and I would actually see if you can call and speak to someone in the morng, either there or at the hospital and explain the concerns you've outlined here about what he does and doesn't know. I thought the accepted approach these days was to be perfectly frank with people about life expectancy etc.

From my own experience, of caring for someone terminally ill with cancer, morpine can have very strange effects and cause hallucinations. altered perceptions etc. ?

take care x

Hi, Im sorry to hear about your dad.

Im a radiotherapist so have lots of experience with cancer patients. The oncologist has to tell your dad what is going on, so in your case I would assume that your Dad is either in denial (which happens with a lot of patients) or he is simply trying to protect you and your mum. he might not realise that the oncologist has spoken to you both about it already. I have met a lot of patients that have refused to admit their diagnosis to their children (however old the children may be). If your worried though then try and speak to the oncologist again and ask them what they have said to your dad. I hope this helps in some way

Take care x

I'm sorry I can't offer any advice but just want to send you all my thoughts and love ?

Hi

My Grandpa died 3 years ago of cancer. I was the last person he spoke to the day before he died. He told me he was going to get better and it would all be fine, then a couple of minutes later he told me how much he would miss me and my children.

I always wondered if he knew or not - I think he did but was trying to protect me and his real feelings came out when he said he would miss me.

What I'm trying to say is, in my experience, my grandpa did know deep down but I don't think he wanted to say it out loud to try and protect us all.

Just my own experience, don't know if it's really much help. My thoughts are with you

Rachael

I am sorry to hear you are going through this.

My dad died 8 years ago of cancer. By the time he was diagnosed he was given just 6 weeks to live. Mum was adamant that she didn't want dad to know. My brother and I went along with this. A few weeks before he died he said he wanted to sort his finances out and transferred shares etc into my mums name. (This made us think that he knew he was dying although it was never discussed). One day when I was on my own with him he asked me what was up with him and when he was going to get better. I lied and said these things take time. Shortly after this dad died.

I really do think its down to the individual person. I agree with mum that dad wouldn't have been able to cope if we talked about him dying. I think he needed (and so did we) us to be postive and believe it would all be ok in the end.

I don't think I will ever forgive myself for lying to him though. We will never know if he did know deep down what was going on. I have to say though, if it was me, I wouldn't want to know. Thats just the way I am.

I hope you get the strength and support you need during this time. Theres alot of help out there and I do wish we had followed it up in some ways. My mum chose to keep dad at home and between the three of us we looked after him 24/7. In hindsight, I'm not sure it was the best way to deal with it.

Sorry this post isn't of any particular relevance or help, I know I still carry something inside, but I think for the first time, putting this in writing has given me a tiny bit of release.

Sorry you are going thru this.

Another vote for Macmillan here, they do excellent work .

Regarding the confusion, its quite possibly the morphine. Ive looked after patients before who have been asking me for money for the ice cream van thats at the end of their bed, and to get the pink hamsters down from the curtain rail around the bed.

Are the doctors/nurses aware of his confusion? Its maybe something you should bring up with them. Please dont be embarrassed, they will completely understand.

Big hugs xxx

Sorry to hear this-it`s a terrible time.

WES re macmillan-but as others have said, it could well be the morphine that is making him act out of character. You`ve done the right thing by speaking to the nurse, hopefully they will be able to gauge your dad`s understanding of his prognosis, it`s very difficult for you or your mum to have to do it.

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Update from today.

Mum had a phone call this morning saying that the nurse from the Fast Track team to bring him home wanted to talk to us. When we got to dad today he was very quiet and down. We spoke to her (with dad) to discuss his options. He wants to come home, but doesn't want to die at home because he's concerned it will cause too many bad memories for my mum.

The nurse then asked to speak to mum and I alone. She's told us that he probably only has a few days left, and possibly won't see out the weekend. There isn't a hospice space available, and my mum really doesn't want him to die in the hospital - there aren't any private rooms available. So he's due to come home tomorrow. Dad thinks he will be transferred to the hospice when "his time comes" but to be honest he's so confused and dozy we don't think he will realise.

We've asked for as much support nurse and carer wise as possible, and my sister's coming home tomorrow (she lives 4 hours away - I'm "fortunate" enough to live nearby). I just want him to get home, let my dad see his brother (they're not close, but there's no major issues to sort out), and for my dad to have a peaceful death. He's asked for a large G&T tomorrow when he gets home, and my sister, mum and I will share one with him.

I can't believe how quickly this is going. I don't want him to suffer any more, but I can't quite believe my dad's dying.

I'm so sorry. You and your family are in my thoughts.

Oh gosh I'm so sorry - I'm thinking of you

Thinking of you all xx

I'm very sorry to hear this.

FWIW my Grandpa died at home in October - he was very peaceful and had the appropriate medications so he wasn't distressed or in pain. It's absolutely the opposite of leaving bad memories for us: Grandma is much more at peace knowing that everyone was there and he was looked after, in his own bed, in a familiar envirnoment, at peace.

It has been a source of great comfort to the whole family to have him die at home, and we actually have good memories of it, if that doesn't sound too awful.

I hope your Dad is comfortable and at peace for his last few days, and that you manage to sort for him to be wherever is best for your family.

Update.

He died peacefully in hospital this evening. My mum and I have been with him most of the day, and my sister got up here around lunchtime. His brother also managed to see him.

He wouldn't have wanted to be "ill" for long, he was fiercely independent and stubborn, so I'm relieved that when it has come to it, the end was quick.

Thanks for all messages of support. If anyone is on my facebook, please don't comment on there at the moment as I have some "RL" friends that I need to talk to tomorrow / over the weekend.

I'm terribly terribly sorry to hear this. You're in my thoughts and prayers, as is your Dad and the rest of your family. Am so sorry for your loss. x x

So sorry to hear that Zebedee. I lost my Dad last summer under very similar circumstances, so I know that nothing any of us say will make it any easier right now, but do know that you're in our thoughts.

Have a hugely inadequate ?

I've just seen your thread - and was going to comment as simillar situation with my gran when she had cancer - me + my dad were effectively doing you + your mums job. But anyway....

i am just so sorry and my thoughts are with you + your family

x

I'm so sorry for your loss. You take care ?

Very quick and very sad.

Thinking of you.

I'm so sorry. ?

Oh Zebedee, I'm so very sorry. You are in my thoughts.

x

I am so very sorry for your loss ?

I'm so sorry to read this Zebedee

So sorry to hear this. I hope you have some comfort he is at peace now.

Take care & my thoughts are with you & your family.

xx

Zebedee - I'm really sorry to hear your news - hugs to you and your family at this time. If you need to talk to anyone we're all here to listen.

I'm so very sorry for your loss Zebedee. I hope you can take some comfort in that it was quick and peaceful.

Thinking of you and your family ?

Zeb I'm so sorry. How terribly sad. Much love to you, and to your family.