Over protective parenting

It never fails to annoy me when parents put down their children's efforts. Of course you can go too far the other way, but it's not difficult to see why some kids won't even try any more before saying "I can't, you do it for me".

As for over-protective, I think it is a problem with society, not individual parents. For example, a child might get a lot from climbing a tree. We all know there's a risk they could fall and get hurt, and in a vacuum you could weigh up the risk and might decide to let them. However, I think there's the extra dimension of if they do fall people will be saying "what was she doing letting him climb it in the first place". Tree climbing used to be a normal activity for children.

I don't know either, it's a very difficult balancing act.

Disco, I completely agree. I think the problem we have as a society has arisen because, for the best part, parents are trying too hard to ensure that their children have the very best of everything. The result is that the children are stressed by the over expectation and are over dependent in all areas and parents are stressed because the task is too monumental.

It's very difficult to get a balance or comment on other people's decisions, I guess.

For me, no child is "deprived" because they can't have chocolate - not in a true sense. It's nice, but it's not exactly life-determining and in the end I made a point of not letting R have any before a year just because his gran was so outraged on his behalf ?

But things like being told off for not doing a good enough picture (which I would say is belittling and over-demanding rather than over-protective) or not being able to explore the world in an age-appropriate manner will, over time, affect a child's ability to interact and assess and make decisions.

There's some evidence to suggest that children need a certain amount of danger in their lives to learn how to balance risk-benefit and make safe decisions later in life and that they need time without close adult supervision to do this.

I suspect a lot of children don't get that space now due to increased perception of risk by parents and an increasingly sterile environment . Think about the constraints of softplay versus the local woods for a 7-year-old, for instance.

I've been thinking about this a lot with bubs on the way.

I grew up in an environment where, from the age of about 4, my friends and I got up to all kinds of stuff (tree climbing, paddling in rivers, building rickety go-carts and using the main road as a race track etc.) because our parents let us go out without an adult present, as somehow they knew we'd be safe. As long as we were home when we were told they didn't seem to worry about what we got up to. And yes, there was the odd trip to A&E along the way but parents just treated that as par for the course.

This was in a fairly well to do small village in the 80s and I'm fairly sure that that same village is not like that now.

I don't know what it is that has made things change so much. It surely can't just be the media scares about paedophiles etc., or can it?!

I started to feel sad for my future child that, living in East London, he wouldn't have a chance of that sort of childhood and I'd have to accompany him pretty much everywhere, but then I realised that nowadays he probably wouldn't have it wherever we lived.

I just dunno really ?

I agree with you Disco. I think it's very easy to say 'just let your kids walk to school/climb trees/go camping with their mates/get drunk and pass out' if they are not your kids, and I know I am as guilty as anyone for that kind of thing.

But it is important to see the cultural context. It's all very well letting your kids 'play out' but if noone else is allowed to then who will they play with? Having said that I know I had a lot more freedom than other kids my age through school and I was conscious of that: in other words, it's not necessarily a new thing. One example: we used to take my Mum's bike out with the baby seat on the back with baby in for a whole day at a time, with a picnic, and just explore. I would have been 12ish, sister 8, brother 5 and baby 2ish. That was only 12-13 years ago and even then my friends were shocked that I was allowed to do it. Likewise after GCSEs a bunch of my friends went to stay at our family's static caravan in Wales: we were all 15 or 16, but some parents made a huge fuss about their kids coming. It's not a new thing.

FWIW I really hope when I do have kids I will try and do as much as I can not to let society and other parents dictate the way I raise them, and let them have as much freedom as I did, but I know that you can't live in a bubble and other people's actions do affect yours.

I've noticed big differences between parenting styles here in Belgium and in the UK- we're each oddly over-protective about specific things and oddly relaxed about others. Parents here will leave their children in the car while they pop round the supermarket (something that would get you strung up on BT ?) but wouldn't dream of taking a child outside without Arctic-level clothing. I've been told off countless times for exposing my children to danger (by letting my toddler go swimming!!! and taking my baby out of the house before she was 6 weeks old- an absolute non-non apparently) Similarly the different nationalities I've met over here all have their own paranoias- I have an American friend who is horrified that I let my children eat local cheese (American parents all seem madly frightened of food poisoning) and a Spanish friend who thinks I'm crazy to have eaten salad while pregnant...

It rather makes me think that it's not so much that British parents are over-protective but that all parents are over-protective, just in different ways. None of us is a perfect judge of probability and we're all likely to give too much weight to certain risks at the expense of others. Having said that, one thing British parents do seem to be particularly hung up about is paedophilia.

I don't think criticising children is a particularly British thing at all, quite the reverse.

I grew up in East London and did plenty of running around with friends, playing unsupervised in the parks, going round on bikes etc. Public transport also gave us a huge amount of freedom to explore (£2 kids travelcards as were then, we went everywhere). I don't think there is any reason why you need to be more protective here. In fact, I think city kids have a lot more freedon as older kids particularly, especially with the advent of free bus travel for under 16s. For tree climbing, we had two good parks nearby but also spent alot of time in Epping Forest. I fully intend to stay here to bring up my future kids here and I'm not feeling sad or guilty about that.

That's a really interesting perspective, Knownowt, thank you for sharing that.

I wonder whether our 'over protectiveness' (for want of a better expression) is a new thing, or whether it's just our apocolyptic way of thinking. I do remember a free and happy childhood - perhaps my children will too? Perhaps we over-sentimentalise childhood?

I'm sure that's the truth!

And just think how much perception of what is right and what is safe changes between generations as well as cultures - I've had countless White British people in their 50-60s tell me off and cite the amazing dangers of slinging my son rather than placing him in a nice "safe" pram. But younger and older White British people and those from Africa, the Carribean and Asia tell me how nice it is to see a baby slung.

You can't win! ?

I think you're right that the geographic difference shouldn't be an issue. I was wondering more about the generational thing. I'd like to think I'd be happy to let my children have the sort of freedom I had, but I know that other parents don't nowadays and I don't quite understand why, though I feel it may be a lot to do with the number of media horror stories.

I certainly don't feel sad or guilty about the fact that we're in East London - in fact although I romanticise my earlier childhood, I hated being in a rural village as I got older and longed to be somewhere like here.

I love Party Rings. Will somebody please tell me what is wrong with Party Rings? ?

Nothing Lou. They are firmly on the menu at all the best "five birthday" parties in these parts.

Phew, thank goodness for that Iris. ?

Party rings are those brightly coloured iced biscuits, aren't they? We never had them at home when I was a child, and was always amazed that they were brought out as a 'treat' when we had a birthday party, as I used to think they were pretty rank.

I wasn't over protective until 3 weeks ago when I had a grilling for child protection reasons after taking my son to A&E. I am now paranoid that they will have another accident between them and it will all spiral out of control. I've really noticed myself wrapping them in cotton wool, seeing accidents everwhere and reining in on what I see as normal toddler behaviour in case my daughter hurts herself.

It is horrible, not really in my nature to be like that and I don't like it.

She is still eating lots of chocolate though ?

It's just all down to the parents I guess, I'm not sure not allowing chocolate is being over-protective, it's just wanting to give your child a healthy diet. I don't deny MissSun any foods really, I feel that if I deny her she'll only want it more so it's everything in moderation. Whether that's led her to pick fruit over chocolate i'm not sure, maybe that's just down to luck or her tastes.

On the subject of discipline and wanting the children to sit quietly I think it can sometimes depend on the day the parent is having with the child. I've had days where MissSun has driven me to despair and i've shouted or kept telling her over and over to sit down or stop touching something, I dread to think what goes through onlookers minds on certain occasions but I can't be worrying about that.

I must say, your mum in the hotel sounds a bit of an extreme case.

Rank!?! I used to love sucking teh sugar off until I was just lecftv with soggy biscuit. Yum yum yum.

I want this one- http://www.pimpthatsnack.com/project.php?projectID=254&pageID=2

I think Party Rings are the Ferrero Rocher of the biscuit world, they're edible but only if you've exhausted all other biscuit options. But then I never got the liking people had for Wagon Wheels, they always tasted like they'd gone soft IYSWIM

Yeah, she was extreme. It just made me sad that it (appeared) she was so over-consumed with protection she was putting several obstacles in the way of the child's relationship with her grandparents. Most of her fears (IMHO) were unfounded, but the risk of alienation from grandparents seemed actually quite real.

I don't want to make myself out to be the perfect parent, quite the opposite actually. I frequently scream at my kids ?? I just wonder whether we're beating ourselves up too much IYSWIM and whether that, in itself, is destructive.

I have to say I often feel lazy and / or irresponsible when i am in the company of such parents ?

Shiny - that sounds dreadful ?

Lou - party rings are lovely, but not as good as chocolate animals ?

Ooof! I do like a nice wagon wheel. ? I think I may have terrible taste in biscuits. ?

The Cadburys ones Clairy? They were my absolute favourite when I was little. <redeems Lou's taste in biscuits>

OK, I'll stop derailing your thread with all of this biscuit chatter now. ?

? Lou, I love Pimpthatsnack. So funny.

Yes Cadbury's ones. And no need to derail, biscuit conversations are always welcome ?

I couldn't agree more. I'm a hyuuuge biscuit fan but Party Rings and Wagon Wheels are both rank. Dry and skanky. Eww.

Well I'm in Guernsey which always seems to be safe. A is 9 and I'll let her walk home from school crossing at least one "busy" road but she's sensible enough and her and her brother who's 6 will walk home from the bus by themselves, they know that they have to wait until a car lets them cross the road or as there are other adults walking their younger children home they walk across with them. I also let my 19 mth old have an advent calendar with chocolate in, and although she's asked for more a few times today she's been told no and has accepted that.

We also let A walk home from Brownies with florescent vest and torch in the evening so she can be seen. However if I was on the mainland I might be more careful, but then I blame the media as it seems like something is going to happen to any stray child just around the corner!

Gryfon, like your kids (and you I assume) I grew up on Guernsey and I can only agree that is seems a safe place. Whether its as safe as when I was a child I don't know. We lived in St Sampsons and I always used to play with my brother and some friends down at the tomato marketing board. The fun we had with climbing the trees and the stacks of boxes. also I do seem to remember me and my brother going home once knowing we were in for it as we were covered in rotten tomatoes having had a tomato fight...didn't go down well with mum ?

I would like to think that if I lived in the right area of guernsey that I would allow my children a similar level of freedom, but here in DK I'm not too sure.