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Michpuss
Rockstar May 2004

Police say a crime hasn't been committed - wwyd (long sorry)

Michpuss, 24 July, 2008 at 15:50 Posted on Off Topic Posts 0 47

H has an IT business.

A couple of weeks ago, someone approached him via their website to purchase some hardware. (this is a fairly common occurance). They accepted the quote and H asked for the money to be paid via bank transfer into the company bank account. The goods were worth about £1,000.

This was paid in and one week later H emailed his bank manager (or equivalent these days). She put in writing to him that "the payment has been credited to your account and you are in a 'safe' zone now and the payment cannot be recalled"

So H sends out the goods via next day courier.

The following monning he gets a call from the bank to say that it was actually a cheque that had been in to the account and it has been returned and the money recalled as the cheque had not been signed by a valid signatory.

H called the couriers but they had delivered an hour before. H sends his Sales Director (a big bloke who can be quite scary!) to the address (in S.London) to try to speak to someone/recover the goods/obtain cash. He sits outside the house for 5 hours with no-one there. Several neighbours approach him as he looks suspicious and he is told that there's a group of "dodgy types" living there.

Unsuprisingly they don't respond to emails and the phone always goes to voicemail.

H went to the police to be told there is not enough evidence that a crime has been committed. They said they need to see the cheque and the letter from the bank. H produces these. They then say that there is still no evidence that a crime has been committed and refuse to take it any further.

WWYD - Should he insist the police take it more seriously? It seems crazy that he knows where the goods went (and can prove this) but the police won't even send someone round.

47 replies

Latest activity by NickJ, 25 July, 2008 at 13:46
  • NickJ
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    NickJ ·
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    God what a nightmare.

    if this was me i think i d write to the bank, enclosing a copy of the letter re he safe zone and demand that on light of the banks confirmation that the money was there and could not be recalled, that they credit his account with the full amount. i would not let the bank off the hook for this one, and i d take it to court if neccessary.

    i d also ask the police exactly what other evidence they needed, and would go about getting that.

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  • SophieM
    SophieM ·
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    WHS - I think the bank is definitely at fault here. Like the profile pic, Nick ?

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  • Michpuss
    Rockstar May 2004
    Michpuss ·
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    Thanks Nick - H just went to police with the cheque and letter as requested. The person he saw kept saying that he had been on duty since 6am and no-one had turned up to cover the next shift. He just wasn't interested in H at all.

    TBH, H didn't want to go to the police as he thought it would be a waste of time. I persuaded him and now their attitude has proved him right. I'll tell him to go back again and maybe see someone else.

    Good idea about the bank as well - although he's worried about his overdraft if he makes too much of a fuss but it's worth persuing.

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  • Emsy Truff
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    WHS definitely. I assume he wouldn't have sent the goods if the bank hadn't confirmed the money was safely received so they are responsible for his loss. I'd be kicking up a right fuss if it were me.

    Also, does he have corporate insurance against this kind of thing? I assume not credit insurance but anything else?

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  • Rusty the Clown
    Rusty the Clown ·
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    The police generally wouldn't get involved where money is involved - it would be seen as a civil dispute. I would be holding the bank a bit more accountable for their actions and demand the money from them.

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  • NickJ
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    NickJ ·
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    Well, worried about his OD or not, they ARE at fault here. he s been the victim of a fraud, yes, but that fraud has only occured becase the bank confirmed to him (in writing) that the money was safe, and it could not be recalled, so in good faith, he sent the goods. i d also go back to the station (or write to the local superindendent or whoever) and demand to see someone more senior. plus, i d also complain about the moron who could only tell him that he d been working since 6am and hadnt been relieved! i mean thats grim for the poor guy, but how unprofessional to be telling your H?

    i d be spitting about this, and i d be really coming down hard on the bank. if the bank even mentions "overdraft", i d say "media story - incompetent bank clears way for fraudster" and they ll soon shut up about it. cnuts.

    yes soph, i thought you d like that ?

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  • DDiva
    Beginner August 2009
    DDiva ·
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    WRTCS Should be dealt with by collection agency or courts

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  • P
    Beginner May 2005
    Pint&APie ·
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    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em ?

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  • Michpuss
    Rockstar May 2004
    Michpuss ·
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    Thanks everyone - I'll pass all this onto H.

    Unfortunately, his insurance doesn't cover this - it's not considered theft for some reason.

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  • Mr JK
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    Mr JK ·
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    In the most literal, strictly legal sense of the term, it probably isn't theft - your husband voluntarily handed the goods over, and was under no obligation to do so.

    But it does seem as though the bank has a case to answer (to put it mildly), and I'd keep pushing at them for all it's worth - the more of a nuisance you are, the more likely it is that they'll just pay you off just to avoid any further damage. A loss of reputation costs much more than a grand!

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  • Frankie Stein
    Beginner July 2008
    Frankie Stein ·
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    Funnily enough a very similar thing happened to me.

    I used to do party plan and foolishly accepted a cheque for payment of the goods (approximately £250).

    I waited for the cheque to clear, and the girl who had written it, recalled and therefore i was without the money. I contacted her and contacted her and she kept promising me the money, but it never appeared.

    I ended up speaking to my Dad about it (used to a policeman) as i was going on holiday, and he tried to chase it for me whilst i was away but kept getting the same response and still the money never showed up.

    I told her in the end that if i didnt get the money by x date that i would contact the police. Surprise surpise i didnt get it so i went straight to the police (with my dad!!). They ignored me at first, stating that it didnt constitute theft, but then after my dad quoted some law stuff to them they finally agreed that it was theft and they would pursue it (perhaps some other kind hitchers can suggest what law this would be?)

    Many more chances were given to her to pay and finally it was all set to go to court.

    It was only the day before we were due to attend in court, that her solicitor phoned me to ask whether i would drop the case if she paid me. I confirmed i would (i only ever wanted my money) and it was dropped.

    I dont know if my experience helps at all, but from what my dad told me at the time, apparently the police dont like to get involved in things like this and will try to make out that it is a civil case, etc in order that they dont have to file paperwork, etc (im not saying this is the case with all police, but just what my dad said).

    Hope that helps

    Frankie!!

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  • Braw Wee Chanter
    Braw Wee Chanter ·
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    I'm probably wrong but isn't this obtaining goods by deception? Or did I just make up a whole new law? ?

    x

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  • NickJ
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    NickJ ·
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    nope - surely it is? section 15 of the theft act, 1968

    15. Obtaining property by deception

    (1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains property belonging to another,
    with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, shall on conviction on
    indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

    (2) For purposes of this section a person is to be treated as obtaining property if he obtains
    ownership, possession or control of it, and ‘obtain’ includes obtaining for another or
    enabling another to obtain or to retain.

    (3) Section 6 above shall apply for purposes of this section, with the necessary
    adaptation of the reference to appropriating, as it applies for purposes of section 1.

    (4) For purposes of this section ‘deception’ means any deception (whether deliberate
    or reckless) by words or conduct as to fact or as to law, including a deception as to the
    present intentions of the person using the deception or any other person.

    PP - i didnt like the heart, no other reason. you ll see that i remain signature-less.

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  • NickJ
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    Also, surely its a breach of the relevant section of the banking act? i ve been trying to find section 35 online but i m struggling. anything to stay awake ?

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  • Braw Wee Chanter
    Braw Wee Chanter ·
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    Glad to know I'm not a complete dunce. This sort of thing happens on fleabay a fair bit and in most cases the police treat it as obtaining goods by deception. I don't understand why the police didn't ask for the address of the recipient and a copy of thhe delivery report, complete with signature.

    I would certainly be putting pressure on the bank but I'd be pushing the police to tae it seriously at the same time.

    x

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  • Michpuss
    Rockstar May 2004
    Michpuss ·
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    Thanks everyone - and thanks Nick for the law info.

    H is going to take it further with the bank and will also go back to the police and demand to someone more helpful/senior.

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  • hazel
    VIP July 2007
    hazel ·
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    Oh please can't you get a ticker?

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  • NickJ
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    NickJ ·
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    what do you mean? i have a ticker?! ?

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  • hazel
    VIP July 2007
    hazel ·
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    Nice ?

    Anyway, she's only 5 months and 3 weeks ?

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  • NickJ
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    oh i thought it was obvious? its me with a golf club taking a massive swing at it on its birthday, the little twat ?

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  • hazel
    VIP July 2007
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    The wording didn't come up first time ? See my edit...

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  • NickJ
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    and? means she ll go further down the fairway ??

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  • hazel
    VIP July 2007
    hazel ·
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    You'd take a baby to your golf club? Wouldn't you get blackballed or something? ?

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  • NickJ
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    Who said anything about a golf club? the field at the back of my house will do perfectly ?

    oh i can see these tickers being a wonderful source of amusement as opposed to irritation. i might to a real cracker and then post on bt ?

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  • NickJ
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    Prefer this one? ?

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  • hazel
    VIP July 2007
    hazel ·
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    Lovely. I hope you're planning to do a report?

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  • NickJ
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    The possibilities to offend people are endless though arent they? oh yes <rubs hands> ?

    i met a bird last week who didnt have a single hair on her body. not one. she was stunningly beautiful too. of course, i was subtle and immediately asked her about her fanny ?

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  • M
    Beginner
    Mrs JMP ·
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    Well if MrJMP can get a police caution for posting an Ebay item 2nd class & not 1st - then I'd say your case has more to it.

    Goods by deception.

    Met & Essex Police have a Computer crime squad - As we found out

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  • BellaPasta
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    BellaPasta ·
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    Is it not a crime to write a cheque you know you do not have funds to cover ? Surely that alone is something to go on.

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  • Hyacinth
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    Hyacinth ·
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    My reply has disapeared! Its not a crime, although it is illegal in some other European countries.

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  • Eric
    Eric ·
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    I too thought it was illegal to issue a rubber cheque

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  • NickJ
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    NickJ ·
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    its illegal to write a cheque when, at the time of writing it, you know there are no funds to cover it.

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