Primary school receptionist 'facing sack' after daughter talks about Jesus to classmate

Im not a Christian or any religion at all but why the hell shouldnt children talk about it, thats how they learn and work out what the personally believe. Utter twaddle

It may look like madness but until you know the full story then it's hard to judge..

I think it was more to do with the fact she had sent an email whilst at work, than the issue of her Daughter talking about Jesus.

There is more to it.

Now I read it as inferring that she sent the email from a personal account at home?

Hmm, well it certainly doesn't sound like the whole story. However, I would say that:

"I asked them to please pray for us, please pray for Jasmine, please pray for the school and pray for the church."

and

"she said the school was sending mixed messages by allowing carols at Christmas and celebrating the Hindu festival of divali. "

In my experience as a parent and teacher of 10 years, I have never known a school to ban anyone, from whatever religion, discussing their personal beliefs at school. In fact it is positively encouraged.

However, if a child (or a parent) were saying that their God were the only one true God, and that all other belief systems were deluded / wrong then I can see why the school would have a problem with that. It's not respectful of other people's beliefs and differences.

I am also uncomfortable with "pray for the school and the church." It suggests to me that either she's campaigning, or she is implying that the school is incapable of dealing with the situation fairly. A sort of 'my Dad's bigger than your Dad' scenario. Which isn't a helpful way of dealing with a situation either.

Its irrelevant to the fact that the child was told off for talking about Jesus. The mothers actions may not have been the right thing to do and perhaps she should be disiplined for that but to tell anyone they can't talk about Jesus is taking it too far

It says she sent the email at home from her own computer, suggesting one of the recipients passed it onto the Head. I wonder if perhaps rather than being a simple prayer, she had made comments about staff members?

But if it's true that the daughter was reprimanded for talking about Jesus then that is riduculous.

The headline is misleading. the real issue seems to be

"The 38-year-old mother of two is now being investigated for professional misconduct for allegedly making claims against the school and its staff."

Furthermore, the Torygraph goes on to put these to paragraphs together:

"As The Daily Telegraph disclosed on Monday, teachers now face being disciplined if they discuss their religious beliefs in school.

The profession's regulator, the General Teaching Council, has drawn up a new code of practice that states classroom staff must "promote equality and value diversity".

Now, forgive me, but that seems to me just shit stirring. Promoting equality and valuing diversity means just that - it does not mean that teachers cannot discuss their own relgious views at school. Views of all sorts, from all members of a school community, are, in my experience, welcomed and tolerated if they are discussed appropriately. However, I think there is a world of difference between discussing your own religious belief, and attempting to recruit others to it / discrediting the beliefs of others because you feel it undermines your own beliefs.

Bur clairy, why SHOULD teachers give personal views on ANYTHING? thats not what theyre there for, surely?

Thanks Clairy.

Of course we don't know what was said by the child. But surely everyone thinks their own belief (or non belief) is right, and therefore by definition others are at least somewhat wrong? Surely if you didn't think you were right you would change your belief There are diplomatic ways of putting it of course, but I doubt most 5 year olds are good at that.

'Pray for the school' sounds like a normal thing to say in a prayer request email to friends to me. But then praying for anything is usual in prayer groups. And she is also asking for prayer for her church in the same way, and presumably isn't implying something negative about them.

I suppose it depends on what was in the email. Someone - presumably one of the close friends receiving it - must have found something in it which merited forwarding it to the Head. That, or there's a whole back story we don't know about with all the usual petty grudges and office politics which something like this can bring to a head.

Just talking about Jesus would be a ridiculous thing to tell a child off for. The only circumstances I could see it being relevant might be if a child was saying that their faith meant they were better than the person they were speaking to, or frightening them with tales of a bad afterlife for non believers. I hope that no child would get hauled over the coals for just talking about their faith that would be ridiculous.

Zoay, the article is very clear to me. she s being investigated for the content of the email, the conversation which her daughter had was just the catalyst.

Reports about the new code of conduct have been up in our staffroom for a while now. Teachers face being struck off if they indulge in behaviour outside of school deemed likely to bring the profession into disrepute. This includes drunkeness, traffic offences and lewd behaviour. Which hasn't gone down well, with most teachers at my school feeling that if they wanted to go on a pub crawl on a Saturday night and get bladdered then that's their own business, providing they are fit to work on Monday morning.

The alcoholic, poledancing in her spare time, Key Stage one co-ordinator was in tears and promptly sped off home in her Audi TT.

Well that would make more sense. But does it mean no-one should ever dare say anything that might be perceived as negative about their work in a private home email for fear of being sacked?!

To foster debate? I don't know how it works in primary school but I'm forever saying to kids 'that's my opinion - what do you think?'

Nick, that's a bit of a simplistic view and it depends on the circumstance. My background is in secondary teaching, so I come at it from that perspective.

In my experience a good number of teenagers need to know you as a person in order to learn effectively. It's about trust. If they know / trust you then most kids are more willing to put themselves in, what is ultimately, a vulnerable position of acknowledging that they know less than you. It might not sound much to an adult, but it's a big deal for many teenagers ?

Also, teachers do IMHO have an important part to play as role models. You are someone outside of the family home, sometimes with a different view from the ones portrayed at home. It's about young people learning that there are shades of grey, and working out their own opinions. It's also teaching them to accept other people from different backgrounds / points of view.

However, I add the caveat that I believe a teacher should do this in an informed, appropriate, considered way. It's a responsibility and harping on about a particular personal agenda, religious, political or otherwise, is never appropriate. So, in this instance, explaining what your belief is and why you have it would be appropriate, if the kids asked and the topic was being covered. Recruiting others to your 'side' is not.

Meh!

(freely)

"I the Lord your God, am a jealous God"

"There is no God but Allah"

There's probably others.

At least in Judeo/Christian and Islamic belief, denying the existence of other deities is rather an important principle. Which tends to make it difficult for believers to promote diversity, no?

I don't think you can get away in secondary teaching without giving your views sometimes. You will be asked for it by teenagers, who will take it as a personal slight if you don't tell them ?

Re the code of conduct. Hmmm. I don't think teachers should have to be models of probity at all times but I've known some who frankly deserved disciplining for things they got up to. Someone who takes multiple days off most weeks because of hangovers, who lets children out half an hour early on a Friday afternoon, who is renowned for telling lurid sexual tales to 13 year olds or is found slumped drunkenly in a 15 year old's house by the parents probably needs something doing, yes? ?

I heard the story on the radio & it did say it was sent from the school - maybe it was wrongly reported.

But I would say - If the mother holds such a strong belief in christianity than why not send her Daughter to a Chuch school?

Because places are scarce? Because faith schools stand for little as they too have to take children from diverse backgrounds?

My suspicion is that we're only hearing half a story - and the half that makes Christians persecuted in this country at that because it makes for a nice tie-in story that has hit headlines.

Are Christians being persecuted? I really don't know. I do know there's a pressure group who are cropping up a lot in the media at the moment with any related story to complain that Christians are losing jobs right, left and centre because of their beliefs. There was something on the radio last night about it, a man from said group said that there were Christians being sacked every week for their beliefs. Is that true, I wonder?

exactly. this is a non-debate until its clear exactly what the email said.

no, its nonesnse. yes, a person would be sacked if they repeatedly treid to shove their beliefs down other employees throats, or clients etc, but people are not fired "for their beliefs", they d take the firm to a tribunal in an instant.

Well that's the impression I got certainly. The examples radio man gave were of a registrar who refused to conduct civil ceremonies and marriage counsellors who wouldn't help same sex couples. Which, IMO, is nothing to do with belief per se and everything to do with refusing to do an aspect of your contracted job and, presumably, creating extra work for colleagues who'd have to pick up your rejects.

Absolutely.

I don't know about this particular story but I do get the impresion that a lot of complaints of this kind centre around people being annoyed at Christianity not being considered the official line for this country's policies etc any more rather than any actual persecution.

If you disagree with fundamental aspects of your job then you should consider a change of career - it would be like me saying I'm a medical writer but I won't cover stories on abortion or euthanasia because I don't believe in it.

Being devil's avocado though, why should there exist the right to conscientious objection in some jobs (e.g. medicine) and not others?

It's partly what we're there for. Giving personal views encourages discussion and critical thinking. I run the school's debating society, so often discuss my views on various issues with students. I discussed my religious views with a group of year 11s just two days ago. They asked me straight out if I believe in god and I answered honestly. I don't see a problem with that.

Because in medicine the decisions that people often abstain from usually involve procedures which will affect life and death and are not just differences of theological opinion.

That's a good question.

I can accept drs and other medical staff refusing to be involved with terminations because of the ethical dilemma involved but only if they pass over the patient without making them uncomfortable.

I didn't say that!!!