Racist Grandparents

Yes, my Dad's 'mother' - (which probably tells you my opinion of her). I too tried the more subtle approaches, and in the end resorted to leaving when she started in on the 'P' word this 'P'word that.

Thankfully, 250 miles has improved our relationship no end.

No, but I have a horribly racist aunt and uncle, who are from Ireland and Hungary themselves <eyes roll out of head at the irony of that one>

I try to point out to them that actually one of the biggest groups of illegal immigrants are surely Americans and Antipodeans outstaying their visas, but they won't have that because they read the Daily Mail dontcha know, therefore they know everything. The fact that most of the above (in their heads) are white clearly has nothing to do with it, oh no siree...

Seriously, breathe deep and let it go, they're probably too long in the tooth to change their opinions now.

My grandmother once drove the wrong way round a roundabout then, when a black man beeped her, shrieked, "that darkie's going for us!" ?

Both my and H's grandparents think it is ok to be openly racist about anyone they meet. My stepdad's dad in particular is horrendous and will make comments to people's faces. I have challenged them a number of times but it has no effect, I just get dismissed as being a bit hippy (they class it along with having energy saving lightbulbs and recycling stuff).

What worries me more is that H's parents are also quite racist (if you can be a 'bit' racist) and homophobic in closed company. I don't think they would be vocal in public but in their own home they often make derogatory comments. It worries me that my little boy is going to grow up hearing stuff like that and think that it is ok. Just another thing to add to my list of why not to visit the in laws.

That is actually one of the terms I can almost cope with (out of a very bad choice of terms) because it is rather 70's sitcom. It's still not good though really.

I 'm not about to disown them because of this, it is just somewhat tedious. Also they are Sun Readers, not DM, that would be too posh ?

And ? at 'hippy' Seraphina. You are hardly knitting your own yoghurt by having energy saving lightbulbs.

"product of their generation"

Good/Bad term to explain their views depending on how you look at it.

My mother is horrendously racist, despite being an immigrant herself. Apparently that doesn't count though as she came over here to work and hates this bloody country anyway. Then witters on about people coming to steal jobs. Urgh.

I argue with it about her, as I do for most other things, but she's the sort that doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good shout. I'm out of ideas, other than just loudly disagreeing each time.

I was very shocked when a member of staff at my school used this word in the staff room (when explaining who had been killed of in Spooks). I was so taken aback that I just blurted out ' oh my god you can't say that' and she did look somewhat embarressed! But a lot of teachers do read the Daily Mail and they do seem to confirm all the opinions voiced on here about readers of that paper!

I think my dad's parents probably were very racist but are not alive anymore. My mums parents are/were actually quite enlightened folk.

I have the same problem - my FIL thought it was hilarious that his neice's son reported back that when watching a football match with him he was calling the black players chimney sweeps. And my MIL called Upsy Daisy from ITNG a wog in front of my son, luckily before he was the age to understand. Needless to say they were told in no uncertain terms not to talk like that in front of him again but they dismissed both me and my H as being silly ?

Not necessarily, ONE.

Otherwise how do you explain non-racist 80 year olds?

Being a "product of your generation" doesn't imply that every single person of that generation is the same. In this case it provides a reason for the behaviour - which I agree with.

My lovely gran is a bit racist, but not in an overly offensive way. She got a cab once and the driver was very polite. She said to me "He held the door open, and he was a darkie!". My Grandad used to comment about how there were too many "bloody darkies" on TV. Understandable really, when you think that as they were growing up the vast majority of people around them were white.

Less tolerance with age for sure. My FIL is /was so anti racist he ordered family out of the house for using racist language, he is now blaming all our coughs and colds AND all the rape in the larger glasgow area on immigrants, most specifically the poles / czechs etc. Ironically if they were black it wouldn't occur to him to do this.

He is however a shockinh homophobe and thinks all gays and most specifically graham norton are paedophiles. My Dad is the other way, on the racist side (I've been working on him for 30 years, he's learning to keep mouth shut at least) but best friend is gay..so the conversation round the dinner table is full of me, H and the mums frantically heading off topics of conversation.

Is it a class thing? I am not saying that it is, I am wondering. My Grandparents are very firmly working class. They are also in their 80's and yes, when they were younger there was not an ethnically diverse population. They live in Leicester, so outside of London, it is probably as diverse as the UK gets. They do make me laugh, they don't see the irony in them encouraging my Uncle to emmigrate to Canada to get away from all the immigrants. I hope this doesn't make it sound as though I don't love them, I do! I just wish that they'd tuck Ronnie Racist in the drawer when I go round ?

Product of generation....

Some realise the times have changed, some don't. I run into it a lot in the living history field when I'm asked (by children) what a particular figure from history would have thought about "Insert Social Issue Here". Sometimes you can write it off as inapplicable, but sometimes you have to explain that people "back then" may have had views we didn't like, but it was because they never considered anything different.....

It's like.... Was everyone who put up with segregation in the US until the Civil Rights movement a cross burning KKKer?

I'm from Belgium, which is the most racist country I know. Every time we meet up with family (with the exception of one of my sisters) or friends, we are always appalled at the amount of racist comments we hear. And when we say something about it, they will just go"oh but that's not a racist remark". Thing is, when we lived in Belgium, we didn't really notice how racist they were. It wasn't until we moved over here that we realised how racist nearly everyone is over there. Even on the news they say things that we find shocking but are considered perfectly acceptable over there.

MrNeo's grandma recently screamed all hell and murder when her new postman tried to deliver her pension cheque, he was a "negro" and she was so shocked.

Hmmm I wouldn't have my Grandparents down as KKK hood bearing cross burners ONE! But they are undoutedly racist. And I really do not believe that everyone of their age is. It is a question without an answer I suppose. There is actually nothing I could say or do to convince them otherwise. And I love them and won't be disowning them for it.

I'm not sure it is a class thing. My grandparents are upper middle class and my gran once brilliantly told me that there 'weren't many black people in Newcastle because it is too cold for them up there'. I think she actually believed this. It's ignorance as much as anything else.

I agree with the product of generation train of thought. My Nana is a lovely woman, helpful and kind to anyone. However she refers to her cousin's husband as a darkie. It was how he was referred to by her parents. May marrying said man caused serious ructions in the family based on his skin colour at the time and my Nana wasn't allowed to be a Bridesmaid at the wedding because of it. She meant nothing bad by referring to him as a darkie when telling us how appalling the fuss was, it was just the way she referred to him.

I think it's similar to some attitudes to children born to unmarried parents. Some people now think it's part and parcel of life, understand that some people don't agree with or want to get married whereas to some it's still something to be ashamed of.

My mum has been openly racist about the Japanese in her time, but I think she genuinely thinks they're fair game, what with being rich and successful.

My grandparents were both immigrants to the Island and having moved away from their home country to find work I think it did make them understand what it is like to be a minority. They came from France early last century to work as farm labourers (to send money back to their families who were extremely poor). Sadly they did encounter quite a lot of ignorance and had to live in bad accommodation and work long hours for very little.

Gran and Grandad always gave people a chance no matter where they came from or what they looked like, everyone was equal and that is how they brought the family up. You judge a person on how they act and not how they look.

We have great full on debates with H's Grandpa, it used to be H's mum and him against Grandpa (H's dad thinks its all very rude to 'debate' with your elders) Now I join in as well. He is very set in his ways and enjoys a good debate. He is often on about there being too many muslims and we explain about how its only a very small percentage of muslims that are radical and this goes on for hours. He doesnt mean any harm as such by it, he just can't really change his opinions now he is in his 80's.

My mother, on the phone to her friend, in front of H and I.

"Yes. Yes, I'm here with my daughter and son in law. Yes. Yes, he's very nice for a coloured."

Need I say more? Luckily my H has a very high tolerance level and a good sense of humour.

My dad is a bit of a nightmare. iv tried all sorts (ignoring the comments, arguing with him, trying to educate him) but nothing seems to change his views!! he is not only racist but also homophobic (btw he says he is neither of these its just his opinions)

at my wedding he said to my gay friend that he 'didnt have a problem with you gays....just as long as you dont make a move on me' my friend obviously had to try extremely hard not to make a move on my dad (the bald fat middle aged man ?). my dad found it hard to believe that gay men dont automatically fancy any man they see.

Yep, my grandma used to refer to 'darkies' too, but I hadn't noticed/experienced it until she had had a long term stay in Reading's hospital and was refering to some of the nursing assistants, by which point bless her she was not really easy to have a conversation with/understandable, and definitly not able to have a debate with me about racism/the right words to say

Clare xxx

I think there's an interesting point to be made regarding terminology. I'd say there's a definite difference between inadvertently using an "old-fashioned" word e.g. coloured, darkie etc, and being racist. If you are using it in a derogatory way then yes, it is racist, but just using the wrong term by accident... I'm not so sure that I would call it that.

For sure, it's related to what you have been exposed to growing up, and particularly where you live and what attitudes your parents have, but that's the same for young racist people. I'm not sure it's as simple as just age/generation. There have been people migrating to this country for hundreds and thousands of years.

I do find the idea that it's impossible for someone to change their attitude because they've passed the age of 50/60/70/80 a weak argument tbh.

Homophobia is an interesting one as well. I think in some ways there's a more valid argument for the generation "thing" in terms of attitudes to gay people, because societal attitudes have changed, whereas I'm not sure it has ever been socially acceptable to be racist (although I obviously wasn't around so hey, I'm probably wrong).

Luckily I seem to have been blessed with open minded grandparents (all definitely working class, not sure it is a class issue tbh) so it's not an issue, but if they were overtly racist/homophobic I wouldn't be able to just ignore it.

Of course it has. Before the mid-fifties at least it would have been considered unusual not to take race into consideration when evaluating anyone, for any purpose.

No Blacks

No Irish

No Dogs

Interesting Nick. Must be my optimistic/naive side coming out again.

I wonder then, how we have managed to end up with any pensioners in this country who aren't racist? Why some people adapt and others don't? It's interesting.

I think it is more about adaptability, you are right. I wonder what it is that makes people more willing to take on new ideas - I'd like the think it was maybe education based, but is it?

It isn't a class thing - look at the royal family recently. Posh as you like and totally unchallenged in the use of racist terms.

I think the whole thing is really interesting. I really struggle to imagine what it would be like to be born and grow up any way other than believing that everyone is equal: no divisions by gender, race, sexuality, disability etc etc.

To me, it feels like such an strong inborn instinct that I really find it impossible to put myself in the mindset of someone who is a generally nice type, but honestly believes that "the blacks" or "the gays" are inferior. I just can't understand what it must be like to be in that position and not want to challenge it.

I think it is as much about experience as it is about education per se - although it is an interesting one, as it doesn't necessarily follow that the 'very best' or most exclusive or extensive education = non-discriminatory attitudes.

Adaptability might be the key word after all. It is easy to forget that many people in their 80s now were at the forefront of equality movements around the world.

Possibly because you have not been raised from birth to believe that the world owed you a debt of gratitude for bestowing upon it "British Civilization".

As regards older folk who aren't racist, obviously people are different. However, I believe that there is also the issue of how people of different ages encounter those of other ethnic backgrounds.