Racist Grandparents

My nan - who died in 1984 aged 90[ish] wasn't racist. She did however refer to people as 'darkies' to describe them [eg the nurses who were looking after her] cos that was the way she had always refered to people of colour. She was genuinely tolerant - and would speak in horror of the way a relative of hers was shunned for marrying a german POW after the first world war.

my mum is 80 soon so in the age range that is being described..... she is very tolerant and is willing to change the terminology she uses - eg she no longer uses coloured etc.

As a family we are very working class if that makes any difference.

My MIL has to be the most racist person I have ever met. Every time I see her she has a rant about something. If you are not a Scottish white protestant then she doesn't want to know.

My granny was one of the warmest people I've had the privilege to know and I don't believe she was rascist but she did use racist language, usually darkie but often paki too. She had a corner shop across the road from her "the paki shop" and despite them telling her several times that the were in fact Indian but she failed to see the difference.

In 2000, Scotland had a 2% ethnic minority and whilst I'm sure it;s far higher now, n 1929 when my granny was becoming an adult, I'm sure it was far, far less. It's not surprising people were racist as apart from the black babies fund at church, they had no experience of other ethnicities. Blimey, I remember a man from Ghana coming to my primary school, an actual black man! This was the 80s! ?

One of friends at senior school happened to be mixed race when she came for tea after school one day, my ("I'm not racist") mum was shocked I hadn't mentioned her skin colour. When she met my then 83 year old granny and asked her if she should call her Mrs xxxx, the reply was "no dear, just call me granny". That's not a racist person, just someone from a different era. (btw, my granny was known as granny to anyone of a younger generation she considered a friend, including my and my mum's (her ex dil) friends and even my mum's work colleagues used it as her name, it was lovely. ?)

PS, my mum isn't racist either really and is far more opened minded than she used to be. My mum paid enough into the church fund to be able to name five black babies, she named them all Monica. As H is only the second generation in his family to be white, we joke she could get a real life Monica soon. As far as her homophobic "being gay is an illness" tendencies of yesteryear, she's going to a civil partnership wedding in June. She's a different person in that way now really, it's lovely.

My grandfather was another who referred to black people as darkies, as in, when in hospital, in front of said nurse "these darkie nurses are very good you know dear". That was supposed to be a compliment on his part. I don't believe that he was a hate -type racist, but one who was simply ignorant, despite having traveled the world as a soldier. My father however is a racist through and through. I remember being allowed to play with a friend from jordan as she 'wasn't really coloured'

Here, however, i find the racism is against me. As a white person i must be loaded - therefore it is acceptable to ask me for money for everything and to be offended (deeply!) if i don't pay up. I also can expect to pay more for things. Friends who have married locals have problems in that the extended family of the local will always come to the immediate family and ask for the westerner to pay for everything. Its simply ignorance.I translate how much a tv licence and house cost in the UK into shillings just to explain to them

My grandfather was another who referred to black people as darkies, as in, when in hospital, in front of said nurse "these darkie nurses are very good you know dear". That was supposed to be a compliment on his part. I don't believe that he was a hate -type racist, but one who was simply ignorant, despite having traveled the world as a soldier. My father however is a racist through and through. I remember being allowed to play with a friend from jordan as she 'wasn't really coloured'

Here, however, i find the racism is against me. As a white person i must be loaded - therefore it is acceptable to ask me for money for everything and to be offended (deeply!) if i don't pay up. I also can expect to pay more for things. Friends who have married locals have problems in that the extended family of the local will always come to the immediate family and ask for the westerner to pay for everything. Its simply ignorance.I translate how much a tv licence and house cost in the UK into shillings just to explain to them

I think it was socially acceptable to be racist, and until surprisingly recently. I grew up in North London and in my primary school in the late 70s it was normal to talk about "the paki shop" and to make assumptions and jokes about people's colour and cultural background. There were a lot of East African Asian kids at my school, and they went through hell I think with a lot of the white boys spending every playtime roaming around singing songs about going paki bashing ? but I don't recall any action from the teachers, or expressions of shock from most people's parents, including my dad.

My grandparents who lived in London were acutely aware of people's race and would comment on it, but I don't recall them ever expressing any negative opinions. In latter years they made great friends with the Sikh couple next door and with their Pakistani doctor and pharmacist, but would still refer to them as "darkies" and could see nothing wrong with that.

My great aunt was so racist she was expelled from her nursing home, and the vicar offered to pray for her to become more tolerant. She didn't, but as her dementia advanced she became universally vile so was allowed back in. She spent her latter days believing she was still collecting rent for her father in 1930s London and trying to tip other old ladies out of bed because they wouldn't pay.

I think that being homophobic is still accepted and expected in a lot of circles, sadly. The homophobic bullying that goes on in most schools, largely unchecked, is shocking. My dad is also of the belief that gay men are indistinguishable from paedophiles, and that all gay men want to sleep with every other man. He was very distressed about having to share a hotel room with a gay colleague at a conference, and claims he couldn't sleep all night for fear that he'd be "interfered with" ?

PL, for some reason I've just remembered about the only corner open-all-hours shop in my home town not to be owned by an Asian family was actually known amongst some locals as "the white paki shop". I really shouldn't laugh but ? I'm proud of my home town actually, it's far more diverse than it used to be (thankfully!!)

My mum, although she was occasionally racist, she would have killed me if she had ever heard me say it. Same goes for darkie etc, but then I wasn't allowed to say knickers, bum, belly, hell..... ?

My OHs parents are terribly racist. We were watching some sporting event on TV, I forget what it was, and his dad said 'He's very good. Shame he's black'. I just sat there completely open mouthed and taken aback. Mind you, it's not surprising they are like this seeing as OHs granddad told us he had 'a great big fat n*gger nurse' looking after him in hospital.

I'm really shocked by some of the stories on here to be honest. I've never heard language like that from anyone in my family or friends.

I grew up in NE London in the 80s and was one of the only white kids in my primary school but I genuinely don't remember any use of racist language or stereotyping at all. I did go to a pretty progressive liberal school so maybe that was the exception?

As an aside: Mrs M - what is the "black babies fund"?

Children in the UK (Scotland?) were encouraged to give thier money to the church (RC) and it was sent to Africa, to orphanages I presume? It was known by pretty much everyone as giving to the black babies. Once they had given x amount, they got to name a baby. As this was immediately post war, it took an awful long time to save the money so getting to pick a name was a huge achievement.

We still chuckle about the fact there could be 5 women called Monica living in an African village. ? I'm sure the naming thing was a bit of a con as I don't think babies would stay nameless until a child in Scotland had saved enough money to name them. [laugh

http://www.ourglasgowstory.com/comments.php?sid=281&start=&end=&id=&PHPSESSID=4d1617e67f155cd8980aa2cb760b45b2

And http://www.ourglasgowstory.com/story.php?sid=408&start=0&end=13&id=1075906385&o=&PHPSESSID=4d1617e67f155cd8980aa2cb760b45b2 ?

I wonder how much of it is to do with knowing/caring what the acceptable term is rather than age or class - my MIL always refers to black people as "coloured" and I'm sure she thinks that's the polite word (no telly and she doesn't read newspapers much). My FIL quite happily talks about going for a chinky (not sure that will come out, it's the obvious racist term for a chinese person) - obviously he knows that's not the way to refer to a chinese meal, for him it's just a shorthand or perhaps even affectionate like a term such as paddy/taffie. Neither of them are racist, and they are both very well-educated upper-middle class people in their late 60s (I do wince at the restaurant term, though!).

My grandparents (80s) would never let such terms pass from their lips, probably because my granny worked as a social worker and knows the correct words to use.

As for "paki shop", where I'm from in the North West (although perhaps not in my immediate family) that's the completely standard term for a corner shop - it wasn't until I was a teenager that I realised it isn't quite the thing to say.

If 'Darkie' were the only term my grandparents used I'd find it easier. They don't just comment on peoples appearance. Every social ill is because of [immigrants]. They can't get an appointment at the Dr's? It is because of the 'Somalians' who are 'filthy'. Actually I'd better not go into too much detail because it is actually very offensive. Not rose tinted 1970's 'darkie' comments.

And R-A I disagree with your point that not being able to change their opinion is a 'weak' argument. Have you ever succesfully changed the opinion of someone in their 80's who has deep rooted hardcore views on any subject matter? I'd love to put you in a room with my nan and grandad for a dayand challenge you not to just come out shaking your head ?

Last point (not aimed at anyone in particular) I do not believe that anybody who currently uses the term 'paki shop' (not in the 70's or 80's - now) is not a racist. Of course they bloody are! They may not be cross burning, BNP stomping, hate mongerers, but they are racist.

Mrs m - im from glasgow and i remember 'the black babies' i named one madonna ? do you rememer you would get little pictures of someone from the village and you would put the name of the baby you had named on the back of it...or was that just my school?? i remember they changed the name of the fund i think in the late 80s/early 90s to 'the holy childhood collection'

But I think some people are stubborn, whatever their age.

We've had some notable success with my grandma (in her 80s) - and the most stubborn person you will ever meet - with regards to her attitude to learning and behavioural disabilities. Youngest Brother has ASD, moderate learning disabilities and various other problems and is quite clearly not "normal" but she maintained for the first 10 years of his life that it was all just "bad parenting". Lots and lots and lots of rows, TV programmes, newspaper articles, a statement, placement in a SEN school and SATs results later, she has conceded that he may have some kind of disability. It's not been easy, but I don't think older people are inherently stuck with the opinions they formed as children.

Waaaah! Madonna! ? I wonder if your priest thought you meant the Virgin Mary? ?

It had long gone by my time at our church (I must be about the same age as you) but we did get little boxes to collect money for Sciaf in, which we had to take to church on Palm Sunday. They still do that, actually. I think my mum is dreaming of Monica #6 as she makes us put all our change in it during lent.

I completely agree with you and have challenged my in-laws to the point of success on that one.

My MiL says coloured and I feel I can't challenge her on that one as her black aunts and uncles (and mixed race dad) spoke about themselves as coloured so she does the same.

I really feel for you MJ, it sound hard going. ☹️

My maternal grandparents were born in New Zealand and Egypt, both of Irish extraction, so there wasn't too much anti-immigrant prejudice round our neck of the woods. In fact, Granny taught French for a living, as it was more or less her first language.

My grandfather did have some very strange views about women, though - strange because they appeared on face value to be absolutely classic male chauvinism (I'll always remember watching the Olympics with him on telly and him saying "You know, it's never been the same since they let women compete"), but on the other hand he insisted that his four daughters go to university, which was by no means the norm for the 1950s.

I honestly can't remember my paternal grandparents saying anything racist, though as my dad spent much of his career campaigning against overt and covert racism in the legal profession (I think he may even have been the first barrister to take on a black female pupil, who's now in the House of Lords), I suspect I'd remember if there was any family tension! ?

Thanks Mrs Magic, but don't feel too bad for me! They are actually lovely people and I feel lucky to have them in my life. I just wish that they weren't utter rascists ?

R-A - re: your Grandmother, that is an interesting point. Our daughter has Aspergers Syndrome, and where 99% of everyone else likes to blame her 'quirks' on anything but her diagnosis, my Nana has been supportive from the first time it was mentioned. She had seven children and I think that she could see that our daughter was different. She makes extra effort to communicate with L on her level and has never judged her or us. It never fails to amaze me how many people think that they know better than the two Dr's who made my daughters final dianosis after two years of assessments and tests. Of course everyone else knows better! I just sound bitter and twisted now don't I ?

No, you just sound like a normal parent of a SEN kid, unfortunately ?

You'd think my grandma would be able to see that A is different - especially as he is the youngest of 5 (older 4 neurotypical) so why my mum's "bad parenting" would suddenly manifest on child no 5 is anyone's guess. We have made some good progress (and she will now "defend him" to other people outside of the family, which is nice) but it's still slow going. Last week she told us that the reason A (now 15) loves Thomas the Tank and Winnie the Pooh is because my Mum won't buy him "age-appropriate" books and DVDs. Erm, yeah, right.

(My Dad also has Asperger's, but according to Grandma, could that have anything to do with A's ASD? No, of course not!)