Relatives being present at resuscitation (clearly sens)

As some of you may know, our baby is due in hospital asap for major surgery, the surgeon couldnt (wouldnt?) guarantee the outcome. I have decided should he need resuscitation i want to be there with him if i am allowed, and im certain my H will be the same. I can see though why some people wouldnt want to be, i think if it was anyone other than one of my children i couldnt be.

From experience:-

I was 41 weeks pregnant with our first child, had been unwell & was extremely swollen - so went into have baby, was not in labour, had a scan & discovered I had a breech baby - so c-section was only option, bloods were sent off for cross match & I was taken to theatre, MrJMP & my Mum were outside whilst I had a spinal. At this point MrJMP was walked in by the Midwife to join me.

All I remember was the room spinning & saying to a blurry MrJMP 'I'm sorry' & a sharp pain in my body made me pass out.

What happened was I had a cardiac arrest, as the spinal had lowered by BP , my liver had ruptured & I was critical - MrJMP was pushed out of the room after seeing someone just jump ontop of me & another cutting me.

He & Mum just stood in shock, a nurse could not even find out what was going on. Lots of running about by staff & dead silence apparently.

The baby was born pale & floppy, so was whisked off & I was bleeding & unable to maintain my BP.

I woke 4 days later in ITU.

Isabel will be 5 on Monday.

I'm not going to go into detail about what happened with my Dad, & as much as being there has helped find Gross neglect took part, I wish every day I could erase those images from my mind, it hurts very much & has caused me great harm.

xxx to those who have lost a loved one.

It is something of a blur but I was present with my mum when all the monitors did their bleeping and alarms were ringing. She didn't have shock treatment but I am fairly sure that adrenaline was administered.

Despite having sworn that I didn't want her to be resuscitated, at that precise moment in time I wasn't ready to let her go. Not that I was an hour later

? to Campergirl and Sandie

I completley agree. I would want to be there for these reasons and also, I detest the idea of leaving someone to die alone (I'm not sure if this is a bit unhealthy) therefore would want to be with the person should any attempts fail.

Those who have mentioned children - it is very much encouraged for parents to be their with their children if they arrest. That has been common practice for many years.

Interesting to think why that has not been the case in adults previously.

I'd absolutely want to be there if it was my husband/parents/brother.

I guess this question has lots to different scenarios and situations so one clear cut reply is never going to fit all situations. I’d like to think that I could be with a loved one until the end, partly due to my own fears about not wanting to pass way alone, but in practice could I do it? I don’t know.

I was asked to move away when they tried to resusitate Dad. I'd walked in and found him 'gone' .. when I told the nurse, everything turned into slow-motion for me, and it was like I was in the middle of a film set of ER or Casualty .. nurses running around like crazy, crash team came in, curtain pulled back. I was in the middle of the ward which was only a few feet away from Dad's bed, so I could hear everything anyway.

I wouldn't have wanted to see them cut his throat to put the pipe in, or to watch the paddles put on.

If it was Mr P I'd want to be there so he wasn't alone. If I had children, without a doubt I'd want to be there. Mum .. probably not.

? hope all goes well, Han.

Several people have said this. I take you mean alone from friends, family etc? In an arrest situation noone would ever die 'alone' as we (staff) are all there.

I was there when my baby nephew died, and TBH, I'm very glad I was.

I've worked on a resus team for almost 25 years, and although it's part of my job it never prepares us for loosing a loved one.

In the time they worked on him (despite knowing it would be fruitless, it was until my sister could arrive), I somehow satisfied a crazy part of my brain that needed to know that everything had done. In my mad griefridden state I even had the thought to ask them to clarrify that they'd tried every procedure (even some that in retrospect were usual in my London teaching hospital, but unavailable in my distric general).

At no time do I ever wish I'd made a different decidion and not been there.

If anything should happen to my family, children or parents I'd want to be there for exactly the same reason. Strangely though, I've discussed this with Russell, about our own situation, and personally I would rather he wasn't there at the end, but by then, I guess it won't be my choice

It's an emotive subject and I think that people wouldn't want their loved ones to die without a loved one being with them. I think it's a bit like the end of the journey - when you came into the world, you had your mother there - so when you leave it, someone who loves you would ideally be there to see you out of this world (IYSWIM). None of that would make any sense logically, but I think it's some deep lying spiritual/primeval feeling?

In my post I also mentioned being alone. I feel guilty that my Dad went to hospital alone, and woke up after being revived the first time in what I imagine was a frightening experience with strangers. We never had a chance to speak to him. So yes, being alone without us there. (Just to add, this is slightly different in that my Dad survived, but is so badly brain damaged that he isn't the same 'Dad'). As I said before, I have never really spent too much time thinking about it since, this thread has made me think about it more, but my Aunt certainly does every day and has never forgiven herself that she left him to go to hospital alone. We tell her all the time that she did the right thing and no-one could have known how it would turn out.

TG

First off ? for having to watch your nephew go

As someone who has witnessed arrests, do you think there is a difference between the trauma of watching a child arrest vs adult. Obviously children are so much more harrowing emotionally but physically what goes on to an adult can appear much more aggressive and scary because it's on such a larger scale, maybe just because you see more... I'm probably waffling nonsense.

I find it interesting that several people have said they would like to be there for their loved ones but that they wouldn't want the opposite situation. Are we all that selfless??

I was my granny's main carer, she had pancreatic cancer and spent her last days in Marie Curie. I wanted to be with her when she died and I told her I would be there, holding her hand. I got the call at 6.27am on 27th August 2000 to say she had died in her sleep. I felt completely dreadful, like I had failed her. Obviously I knew she was better painlessly slipping away in her sleep but having been there at every stage of the journey, I wanted to be there at that point. I still dream about forgetting her, that weeks go by and then someone sees me and asks me why I haven't been to visit. I know I was there every day of her illness and couldn't have done any more than I did, especially at 19/20 years old but the dreams still haunt me and make me wonder if I really was there enough.

If I could have been with her when she died, I would have known she wasn't alone. She was still warm when I got to the hospice but she was already gone and I had missed it. If resus had been in any way an option (which is clearly wasn't), I would have wanted to be there and would also want to be with anyone else I love.

Yes, alone from someone he knew and loved holding his hand. It's something I'm really fearful of .. irrational I know, and I well up at the thought of it, but in my head I've convinced myself Mr P will get struck down with something awful, and sudden. He's never been in hospital. Never had an operation (apart from dental surgery where he was sedated, not put out, and the same with a colonoscopy - not surgery).

I haven't seen an adult resus in ablut 15 years, as I work in paeds.

Somehow though paeds resus is VERY different, mainly because it's not usually (in my experience) a "traumatic" death, obviously excluding drowning / cot death etc.

In paed cardiology we tend to have the opinion that we've tried EVERYTHING, and the only death that affected me badly in the last few years was a pre-teen who died beause of something that shouldn't have happened IYSWIM.

I do think adult resus is different because, in honesty, there is oftenlittle that can be done, and everything is on a huge scale ...

big syringes, big shocks, seeing someone you love laid bare, blood, mess ...

In an emergency situation I think I would want to be there.

Both my parents were present as my 13year old sister was being resucitated as her heart failed (she had leukemia and had a serious infection, the heart failure was not something the doctors were anticipating as a risk to her life.) Initially both said it was so traumatic to see the doctors working on her, my mum in particular found it very difficult to see adult male doctors on top of my sister, literally beating her to try and get her heart started. They worked on her for 40 minutes before my mum decided that enough was enough, a decision I know she struggles with still every day. The comfort that she does have is that she saw first hand how hard they fought to bring my sister back to life.

Strangely, for 48 hours my sister hadn't been by herself, either my mum, my dad or my step-dad had been by herside. It's like she waited to be alone, because my dad had gone to answer a phone call, whilst my mum was in the parent's room getting an hours kip. I know that they've played the 'what if' game a lot about what might have happened if she hadn't been left alone, but I don't think that would have made any difference, after all she was ventilated and unconcious by this point to help her body to fight the infection.

Sorry, that was possibly the most personal thing I've ever written here.

That's kind of what I was getting at, not very eloquently. It always looks pretty barbaric unfortunately. And it's the least dignified thing you could ever wish on someone.

I think being with someone during resus is very different to be with someone who is dying peacefully. But I'll definitely try and ask the relatives if they'd like to be there is possible the next arrest I'm at, as long as there's someone who can be with them.

You've just reminded me of a conversation I had with Camperboy after we'd got together and had decided after 6 weeks to get married etc. We both said to the other that we hoped it would be the other who went first - ie. I said I hoped it would be Camperboy because I wouldn't want him to go through the pain of being left behind and he said the same - that he'd want me to go first.

So, in answer to your question, I do think that people can be selfless like that - we want to spare our loved ones the pain, but in our turn want to be there for our loved ones....

Very interesting debate, this.

Sorry, I'm posting like mad on this thread - my apologies! I post sometimes on a forum for widow(er)s. There hasn't been one widow/er who was with their OH who wishes that they hadn't been. They may wish that they could get rid of the images of what happened (ie. drips, syringes, bloody mess etc.) but they have all said that they felt privileged to have been with their OH while he/she died. Lots of these people have died "violent" deaths, not just passed peacefully away......

Thanks for sharing, Melilot, and sorry for your loss.

? to everyone on this thread who has lost a loved one.

As an aside, it's pretty accepted that often people do seem to 'wait' to be by themselves. There doesn't seem to be any logical explanation for it, but it seems to happen pretty often.

to everyone on this thread who has lost a loved one - Thank you

As an aside, it's pretty accepted that often people do seem to 'wait' to be by themselves. There doesn't seem to be any logical explanation for it, but it seems to happen pretty often.

I agree with that totally.

When my ex's uncle passed away, he waited until he was alone.

When my Grandad was very unwell, My Nan got a call to go the hospital and just made it in time for him to stop breathing.

My cousins Nan when in hospital was a terrible one. My cousin had a phone call from the hospital to get there. They live in California, they caught the first plane over and rushed to the hospital. Connie was told my Cousin and her husband were on their way and she passed away when my cousin was parking the car in the hospital car park.

My Jimmy passed away about 20 minutes before I got in from work. He was still warm when I got home and got in bed with him before I realised he was not breathing. Once I reaslised, I jumped out of bed, turned on the light and rang 999, I knew that he had already gone and that could be the reason I was happy to leave the room when the ambulance crew arrived. Maybe if he was conscious I might have felt differently about staying with him while they tried to revive him.

Oh Sandie, how dreadful ?

With regard to selflessness - I don't think it's that with me. It's more like selfishness. I'm not afraid of death, but it does feel like a very private thing. In an ideal world, I want to die reflecting on my life and knowing I have done most the things I wanted. Like falling asleep in bed with your partner - the cuddle is lovely, but ultimately the sleep happens to you and you alone, and it doesn't feel like a bad thing.

I'd just like to add that I have never experienced a death first hand, so I appreciate this is very idealistic. However, I felt the same about childbirth. I really, really wanted to be alone because it felt like something deeply personal and undignified. As it happened, at the time I wanted my husband there far more than I could ever have imagined - maybe actual death will be like that?

Thanks to all willing to share such personal stories and I'm sorry you've had to go through it ?

Campergirl, its interesting when you say that none of the widows you've spoken to have regretted being there, however traumatic the experience. It really is one of those situations where you'd have to make the decision at the time.

My Mum was present while they were working on my Grandma - she said she hates that this is the last memory that she has of her.

So no, I would not want to witness a loved one in resusc.

I do not, for one minute, regret being with my mum as she died. I do remember breaking down that she mustn't be allowed to die alone and if I couldn't be with her then they must let my dad be with her(poor thing was desperately confused and really not taking it all in at this point).

For me, although traumatic, it did take away some of the fear of death and dying. I never thought that I could be present when someone passed away but with mum, it was strangely comforting. Her husband, children, son and daughter in law were all there, the vicar said the prayer for the dying and then the nurse said she's gone just as he ended the Lord's Prayer.

While I wish that I hadn't had to go through that and my heart goes out to those people on here that have experienced far worse, at least I know that my mum died with those she loved around her and I feel that I could face it again if ever put in that situation.

This is so difficult.

I don't know if I could cope with seeing MrRache or adult members of my family undergoing cardiac arrest resuscitation. The violence is dreadful (people often have their ribs broken by chest compressions, there might be burnt flesh from the defib etc). I think I'd prefer to know that he was being looked after the best he could - and knowing that he'd be unconscious anyway, I think itwould be better if I wasn't there.

It's possibly different with my children. I think I'd want to at least be in the room if something happened to one of them - not least because paediatric resus is usually less physically traumatic.

I would want to be there just to satisfy myself it had been done well; even though I would rather not see it, if that makes any sense.

From the other side of the coin, it can be really disconcerting if you're the dr trying to resuscitate someone while being watched by relatives.

While a junior dr I was often called to resuscitate newborn babies. I had just finished doing my training period and was now called on my own. The first intubation (putting a tube in the airway - often a tricky procedure) I had to do on my own was hampered by the father leaning right over my shoulder repeatedly shouting "Don't hurt him! Don't hurt him!" I did it fine and the baby was ok, but it did freak me out a bit and was offputting.

I think that people should be allowed to stay if that's what they want. I know that for me it helps with closure.

I worked for the Ambulance Service so had started CPR when we found my step-father (he'd had a heart attack in his sleep) while we waited on the amulance to arrive. Being there with him while everything was done, I believe, really helped me to accept that everything that could be done was and that it was just his time.

Leila was only a toddler when her father died, I was pregnant with Lucas at the time. He was away on tour with the Army and while I'm sure they did everything they possibly could it took me a long time to stop thinking "I wonder if they done X" or "I wonder how long they gave it". I just didn't have the same sense of knowing that everything was done and he was given the best chance of survival. It's not the most logical thought, but it's common in a few other people I know who were in the same position.

You're right about the violence rache.

My ex witnessed his best friend of 26 being res after a massive coronary thombosis.

Worst thing he's ever witnessed in his life. They actually cut his friend open to perform resuscitation. Thewife of the friend had to persuade my ex to visit her dead husband at the morgue, just so he could see his friend looking normal as he lay in his coffin.

So, imo, I dont think this would be a good thing for most to witness.

I haven't read the whole thread.

My son need to be repeatedly resusciated a few days after being born, I was taken into SCBU and watched them working on him. Eventually I had to leave as I was close to collapsing. I felt I needed to be there as I felt the only thing I could do was mentally will him on.

It was the most traumatic situation I have ever been through, but as a mother I needed to be with my son, and I pray we never have to go through it again, but if we do, I will be with him.

I am thankful everyday to still have him with us.

I think it should always be the choice of the individual, I found it more painful when I was taken away because I couldn't see anything happening and instead felt I was sitting waiting for bad news.

They needed to ventilate him and they seriously advised I wasn't present to witness it as it would have been so upsetting for me, as they were taking my son away to another hospital, I took their advice as should the worst outcome have occured, I wouldn't have wanted my last memory to have been distressing So from that point of view I can see the negative to witness resuscitation, but I found the resuscitating part useful as I could see how hard they were trying.

I am so so sorry if this doesn't make sense, It will sound odd, I don't want to read back on what I have written to make sure it reads well as I try not to think back to that time too much and instead count my blessings.

I am sorry to anyone who has had a different outcome, my heart truly goes out to you .