HMP Holloway

Hmmm, interesting..

From what I gather from my brother's experience, it's not like that at all. The facilities available vary from prison to prison; in the Cat A prison he had no access to anything, really. Under lock and key for up to 20 hours a day, and over weekends when they were short-staffed in the prison, it could be even longer..

In the second place, Cat C, I know there was a dentist on site, as well as a doctor. However, the dentist would rather pull teeth than fix them, so he never went (had a cap on his front tooth that was bothering him), but instead would go to the doc, who would supply him with numerous amounts of aspirin, ibuprofen, etc..

Since the accident he had (for which he ended up in prison in the first place) he had a hairline fracture on his hip, a broken toe and a bad back which had been seen by physio prior to the sentencing.. He was not given any physio or anything in prison, and now it has emerged that his big toe healed so badly that it needs to be re-broken..

It's not as easy in male prisons, it would seem, as it seems in women's. In the last place, Cat D, he had to cut his own hair with clippers.. Needless to say now that he's out he's sworn to never cut his own hair again! ?

"Luckily" for him, he "only" had to be in for 10 months.. Had he been there longer he probably would've ended up worse with his toe, hip and back..

There were other prisoners who had been transferred from higher Cats to Cat D while he was there, and they couldn't handle the open-ness.. One guy, visibly "hard" looking, was terrified of going out of the prison, because he knew that he had no-one to meet him when he left, nowhere to go and live. So the money, sometimes up to £300, I guess is meant for people like him.

My brother was asked if he had any savings when the governor first discussed his release, and because he admitted that yes, he had a few £100, he didn't get a penny.

There's always going to be people exploiting the system, unfortunately.. There was one guy who was a fraudster, put in Cat D straight away, was to serve a sentence of a year (I think), but will probably get early release.. The judge who sentenced him recognised that he had committed fraud, but no-one to this day could figure out where the money was that he'd stole. £4million is waiting for him on his release!!

I didn't see the programme but I used to pass Holloway on the bus every day (Pentonville too) and it used to scare me sh1tless, it's a grim looking building.

If you don't give grants on release, what will the person do? It takes weeks for any benefits they are entitled to to come through, they don't always have accomodation so they are looking at temp set ups like hostels, they will find it hard to get a job...

There are charities that help young offenders get back into society but like all charitable work, it's luck whether any individual person gets help or not.

I don't think getting my hair cut would go anywhere near to making up for the complete loss of freedom that prison is - I'd imagine that any hair salons and so on are geared for training up people into possible jobs and that the prisoners have to earn a lot of money to afford that kind of treat, and that the privilige can be taken away if there's any trouble.

Don't forget that keeping up morale in a prison is essential if you don't want to have rioting and endless violence.

I understand that Holloway is a Women's holding prison, 90% of inmates are on remand. In the programme last night Lorraine was transferred from Holloway to Dunview once her sentence was set. She was right in saying that once people get settled they shift them out and move them on.

Our friend is serving a lengthy sentence. He was double A Cat but has been downgraded to just A Cat now. He was moved from Belmarsh to one in Cambridge then York. Then Belmarsh again and is now back in York. It's a nightmare journey for us when we go and visit, 4hours drive at least. I'm going to ask him about facilities when we next go up there. He doesn't really like talking about life inside and concentrates visits on what is happening with us. Although I did ask him if he's got a boyfriend yet or is another's man *** ?

Spoke to someone in a Cat A prison today and yes, they do have a barber and have their hair cut by him. There isn't facilities to have highlights but in a Male prison no one would dare have them anyway ?. They just have to book an appointment with him a week in advance.

He also said that the only time a prisoner would be locked up for 20 hours a day is if they were in solitary confinement or didn't have a job. They are allowed to work (even if they are on remand and when there are jobs) and then they would be out of their cell for most of the day, only being locked up for lunch, dinner and evenings.

They are also allowed to buy their own clippers if they have the money (which they would have if they worked). They don't get a lot though. about £35 a week depending on the job they do.

They also have access to thier own kitchen area so they can prepare and cook their own food.

He has said they can be locked up longer if they are short staffed but that is for the safety of the staff.

They do get an allowance when leaving which unfortunately will get abused if someone is a user but is helpful if someone is trying to start a new life.

Cambridge, you say? Was it by any chance a place called E's Hill? Cat C and D? Cos that's where my brother was up til Christmas, then he was shipped across to Ipswich..

In fact, yesterday he went with some mates up to Milton Keynes, and for the first time got to see what Woodhill Prison was like on the outside.. GREAT feeling for him to know he's out of there ?

Regarding the moving thing; both times he was literally given an hour's notice.. Would get a knock on the door at 8am, told that he needs to pack his stuff together (would take all of 2 mins ?) and then put in a van across to the new place.

We would get a call from him when he was in the new place, etc, but the probation officer and solicitor that were looking after him had to be notified by us; the prison red tape is horrendous!

Spring that's a good point, most prisoners I see on visits are bald or have very short cropped hair. No need for highlights ?

Our friend also has his own cooking area and has said they get a catalgoue to order food from but again depending on spends.

Spring - wow, that's a completely different setup to the one brother was in; although I know that he was never given jobs as an orderly because he wasn't going to be there long enough. In the D-Cat prison he was even allowed to get a job on the outside, provided he'd have his papers on him at all times, etc, and go to the local town on the bus to work in a charity shop or whatever, BUT again, wasn't going to be there long enough..

No it was Whitemoor, Cat A.

When was your brother released Miss Smith?

KB3 yeah so does he. He fills it in on a weekly basis and gives it to the staff and has it delievered at the end of the week ?. Tesco to your door!

They also have paint etc and can make things. He said they can attend the education block daily if they are on a course and go to the library weekly.

Mrs S Smith, I suppose they are all different which i bet is very confusing for the person being moved.

From a public point of view i would hope that a Cat A prisoner wasn't going to be given notice when being moved. Obviously it is different when you know that person and know he's innocent and wouldn't harm anyone but imagine it was someone that was a nutter and they gave him notice that he was moving. Enough time to set something up to escape!

I didn't get to see this, though I meant to.

I'm fascinated by the "inside stories" of those of you who know people who've been in prison though.

Ah yes! Good point, actually.. Didn't consider that, to be honest ?

xxx

TBH when they moved our friend to Belmarsh it was much easier for us as we only had half hour travel and he got to see his child a lot more! (Mother won't travel with him and Grandmother finds journey to York too much). When they moved him from Cambridge to York it was a total PITA. However he is settled there now so hopefully no more surprises for him.

The security process for visitors at each prison is different to I find. Whitemoor was really scary in the waiting area and Belmarsh too.

Re the allowance - I suppose you can't let them out with absolutely nothing, especially if they have no family/support on the outside. If someone's going to use drugs, then she'd get hold of them somehow, regardless of what money she was given.

Re the hairdresser - ooh never mind deprivation of liberty, I think I'd find having all my greys coming back and not being able to have them highlighted the worst punishment possible ? seriously though, I think as Zebra said some prisons actually train women to work in that environment - I remember all the outrage and indignation all over one of the redtops up here when a high profile killer got a job in the prison hair salon.

Ahhhh I see!

He was only released a few weeks ago... Still re-adjusting to normal life, bless him. But is currently our decorator for our house! ?

A close friend at uni was put in here for 9 months. She stole money from the company she worked for. I was quite surprised she ended up in such a tough prison. She made an awful mistake, served her time and has been out without incident for over a year.

The thing that surprises me about prisons is they don't show you how often it actually works- how often people leave never to commit crime again. I think most people are under the impression it never does.

I watched last night. Whilst it was very interesting to watch, i also found it thoroughly depressing. To see girls in there wanting to stay as it was easier than life on the outside and Chloe who obviously had quite serious mental health issues. I struggled to see a road to happiness for most of them.

If I was one of those prison officers, I think I'd go home each day feeling totally miserable at the lack of staff, resources and help.

What the stats on UK prisoners reoffending after prison? I didn't think they were particularly good?

I suspect the people who don't reoffend are those who have had a stupid moment and come out to supportive family and friends, and have the skills to rebuild their lives and move on. Hopefully like your friend.

The others - the illiterate, the skill-less, the mentally ill, the drug users or alcoholics, the people who grew up in care and without good support network... who make the majority of prisoners, I understand, will probably go onto reoffend. Because the reasons they ended up in prison in the first place haven't changed - unless they've been lucky enough to receive some kind of programme inside and outside of prison that can change their habits.

Prison works well as a deterrant for me but that's because I have too much to lose to risk robbing a bank or whatever . I don't think it's a deterrant to people who feel they have nothing to lose (or even something to gain) and while it could offer good rehabilitation programmes, that's not what the majority of prisoners experience.

WSS. I can understand why they'd rather be in than out - I think Chloe said something along the lines of 'why wouldn't I want to come back - 3 square meals a day, a job, gym, swimming pool' (swimming pool?! seriously? I can understand a gym but if it's overcrowded then surely there's a better use of space??)

The one who eventually got clean (May?) was quite open about the fact that she'd deliberately committed a crime so she could come in and detox - I wonder how much crime gets committed because people would rather be in jail than out.

Thats exactly what I think too. If anything, prison is a bonus for those with nothing to lose as its the only time they get a routine, proper meals, heat, bed, detox plan etc etc etc.

LaP this is what a friend of my PIL said too about his stay inside!!

I'm not sure which of the prisons over here he was in but he said he could do it again standing on his head!

My MIL brother served some time back in the 80's and his experience was being locked up for 20hrs a day 7 days a week with no luxuries at all. She was surprised by how much had changed and commented that now a days prisoners don't do "hard time" like her brother did, but I suppose every prison is different and times inside prison have chaged just like it has on the outside.

Luv Victoria

xx

I watched this last night and felt so sad for Chloe, she's barely 18 years old and there is just no help for her. It would appear that she's in desperate need of some therapy but nothing can be done, so she'll just end up inside time and time again because she's not getting the 'right' help.

It was obvious the one with the bad teeth would be back, and that May had had a lightbulb moment and was getting her life back on track.

Mr Hole had a rolly eye moment when they were given their grant, having their hair done, etc. But what people so often forget is that the punishment for their crime is the removal of their liberty, not to make them live like they're in the workhouse. It's not somewhere I'd ever want to go.

I'd say the answer was to ensure help for people who lack structure/ability in their lives to the point that they'll exchange freedom for basic care - we know that lowering prison standards of care won't prevent people committing crime or no one would ever go to prison in Thailand for instance!

I also think there's an element of bravado when ex-prisoners say "oh yes, it's easy" . Perhaps if you're on a short sentence and know you'll get out in a matter of months, and you're away from the really hardcore prisoners, and you've earned a few priviliges, it's ok. But it's not as if you can admit weakness while you're in prison without sticking a target on your back. I suspect the attitude continues after release.