Is this acceptable behaviour (child related)?

I'll probably eat my words on this one at some point, but I'm going to plump fo "no." ?

The one that gets me is seeing family cars that have pulled over on a hard shoulder of a motorway so a child can go for a wee next to the carriageway... Last summer I saw this no less than 10 times. I winced at every one.

As I was typing it I was thinking, 'well, if they've got to go, they've got to go' but I don't remember my mum ever dragging me to a hole in the gorund to wee in (except on holiday in France).

I can understand it on long journeys, or even out for the day and nowhere near toilets

L
xx

Finn has just turned 4 and can often be found peeing al fresco (including by the side of the road if there's nowhere else to stop and we're on a long journey - what else are we meant to do??)

But, if there was a cafe nearby which didn't look too unfriendly (bear in mind lots of places don't like people going in to use their loos) then obviously that would be my preferred option.

In the absence of anywhere else suitable, when he does pee outdoors, we always find a hidden corner and never pee on the pavement or where people will walk ?

Well, quite. ?

Long journeys, yes, I can too - but it's easier to clean a piss-stained car seat than it is to clean your child off the motorway... Pull off at a junction, a lay-by, a service station... just not on the hard shoulder. It's for emergencies only. "Child needs the loo" is not an emergency in my book.

Thank God I had my car scotch-guarded. ?

Obviously IDHKSIDU, but:

I can definitely understand the M-way/A road situation (long journey, imminent accident, no services), but don't get the surrounded by shops in the middle of town one, that's just utterly rank as far as I'm concerned.

Surely that's what McDonalds are there for? ?

<awaits flaming from parents>

We don't have Fat Ron's or similar, but we do have child friendly cafs

L
xx

Obviously a cafe or similar is the preferred option IF they'll let you in, and if you can get through the cafe, possibly up the stairs (maybe with a younger baby in a pram?) in time. I think there are circumstances where a drain would have to do. I'd try to find a secluded one, but never say never. By the side of the motorway? No, no and no. Too dangerous.

I understand that if they've got to pee they've got to pee, but I don't understand the drain bit.

MrHs cousin let her kid pee in the middle of hyde park corner (not driving, we were walking home) when st james park was right next to her. My Mum would always find a bush for us.

The other thing is, it wasn't private, it was on the high street. At the main entrance to an alley - why not at least go along the alley way for privacy?

L
xx

What PL said, as ever. Although, weirdly and despite having two boys, I don't recall them ever being *that* caught short. We had an awkward situation at the MILs on Friday when FIL was in the shower (and only loo) and Charlie needed a wee. MIL didn't want him to go alone, didn't want me to go with him, as FIL was naked (errr, neither did I) and didn't want to take him herself. Charlie couldn't wait and had got to the dancing stage, and it did cross my mind to ask if he could go in the garden. In the end, I just made him go by himself and put up with MILs disapproval. Well, she'd have been worse if he'd weed on her floor ?

No. My kids have never been caught short. Not even on mammoth car journeys because you schedule wee stops in. Utterly rank. I'd lock these people up, but my hangover has put in a rather unforgiving and militant mood today.

As a mum of a boy and a girl neither of whom are potty trained yet i speak from me and not experience but I never see little girls peeing in the street etc, what do they do? do mums of little boys take the easy way out to stop them from having accidents? will i do this myself in a years time I'm not sure I'd like to hope not as I don't like seeing it either and my mum said they always used to carry a potty in the boot of the car so even if we did have to stop we would wee in the potty and not by the side of the road and no never on a motorway

Speaking as a mother to a 4 YO girl who goes when she needs to go, I'd say similar to ebee and PL. I'd have tried to find somewhere more discreet if we couldn't get to a public toilet in time, but we do a lot of "jungle wees" because she just can't hold on (thank her father for that - I have a bladder of steel). But never on a hard shoulder of the motorway - we bribe her to hold on.

I'd say not acceptable, but then my 3 year old is very good at holding it in when from when he first tells us he needs the toilet, we usually have a good 15 - 20 minutes to find somewhere and never had a problem yet (touch wood!)

P is 3.5 and to date she has had one Al Fresco wee sans potty. We were at the park or similar so we went behind a bush. We carried a portable potty for about 4 or 5 months post training for those emergency moments (I think we used it 3 or 4 times maybe and mostly in post accident clear up) but now she can pretty much hold it until we get somewhere she can wee. I would not have let her drop trouser and wee in a drain though, eww.

I have stopped on the motorway to let her have a wee (in potty) but only because she was inconsolable because she couldn't hold on anymore. Wouldn't have been my preferred option but she was screaming in pain (and has since learnt her lesson and goes before we leave) and I made sure we moved a reasonable distance so we were as safe as we could be.

Ah well, I'm clearly a dreadful mother ?

Girls have had to pee in the gutter on the way home from nursery before - they were so desparate that they'd already wet their knickers and no cafes open and no bushes. I just think it is one of those things. I'd rather I let them go purposely in the gutter than them become hideously embarrassed and have wee running down their legs. <shrug>

They did, however, know that I didn't think it was a very nice thing to do...

That's not the same as high street surrounded by cafe's etc is it though?

L
xx

No it isn't, but from reading some of the other posts, you'd think I had the only children who sometimes just can't wait. ?

I don't think its acceptable, personally, but possibly unavoidable.

I've had a few near misses. What I did, when my son was a bit unpredictable was have a few strategic places where he could go. There is a small hidden spot where he could go, without being seen. That seemed to work for us.

Apart from a small period of time when they are just training, it only takes a bit of planning to avoid these situations. Its the times I haven't planned toilet stops or nagged them to go, that we've had a few near misses!

This is one of those horrible things that could have been unavoidable in the first few days/weeks of potty training. In other words, it might be better for the child to do it in the street than risk doing it all over the floor of a cafe while you are trying to reach the toilet.

What I did see and think was unacceptable was a couple get out a potty in a cafe and let their child use it. In was in a shopping centre they could have left the cafe bit so that she wasn't doing it right next to people eating and drinking.

And if she couldn't hold on why were they having a coffee out anyway?

Hard to say without knowing how desperate the child was, but not great in a shopping centre with loos closeby.
I recall this many times in my childhood and my younger siblings' too. I don't see what's so gross about it really as long as there's no other option, some attempt is made to get the child out of full public view and it's not somewhere people will have to walk through it. Is it worse than letting a dog wee up a lampost?

Oh, and to Sairedy, for little girls, you stand them in front of you facing away and then pick them up under the knees.

IMO it's never acceptable. The times that I've been caught out and there are no public toilets I've goen into shops and asked to use their staff toilets, most of the time the staff completly understand and let me use them, it's either let the toddler use their toilet or clean up a big puddle on the floor. I would rather let them suffer the embarrisment of wet trousers/underwear at least then it teaches them to pre-determine when they need to go. If the child is at the early stages of potty training during the day then get them to wear training pants and keep reminding them if they need the toilet. Both my children were dry during the day in a week as I waited till they were older enough the understand the signs.

There is no need to let a child pee in a gutter in the street it disgusting and unacceptable. Adults can't get away with it so why should a child.

This wasn't out of view, and no discernible effort was made to be out of view.

I thin it IS different to a dog weeing up a lamp post. I mean, dogs will wee outdoors their entire life, in full view of the public. No one finds it weird. Children should be being taught to wee away from public view, surely? Or would it be perfectly acceptable for adults to wee in the street too, because dogs do, and I am just madly squeamish?

L
xx

No, not at all.

I will admit to being the person who has pulled over on the odd time so K can go to the toilet but I normally take him away from the road and near a hedge/bush or tree if there any about. You have no choice when on the motorway, no services for miles and a 4 year old saying they can't wait.

I remember recently coming back from London with K, we were on the tube, he said he needed the toilet but could wait until our stop where I knew there was a boots with a toilet, turns out he couldn't wait, we had to get off at the next stop, god knows where we were, the pub over the road was all boarded up, and the small m&s didn't have a toilet so I took him down an alley.

If there are toilets nearby or he can wait then thats the option, if he can't wait and it has to be in public, it's somewhere discreet, not on paths or in view of people.

[Hands Essexmum the perfect parenting prize] woohoo for you.

Lois, I do think it's rank, don't get me wrong. And I'm sure there are plenty of skanky people out there who would let their children wee in a gutter rather than be arsed to go into a cafe or whatever.

My niece is 3.5 and when she has to go she has to go now. If there is a loo near by we will use it, but if in the park we have been know to go behind a bush and if in car we have pulled over, not on main road but at nearest junction. I was a child who also had my mother take me behind a bush to pee and i can safely say i've not done it since so it hasn't affected me at all. To make a child pee themselves rather than hold them over a grate is much more imo.

I think its one of those things that people who do/ have done it will always find excuses which to them make it perfectly justified (and give you a patronising little <shrug> on the way out [roftl]) whereas others who think its disgusting will never accept the excuse as a justifiable reason. So not really something which can be discussed rationally.

Reading back the OP I missed the bit where it was directly into a gutter, rather than just on the pavement. Slightly less rank. From perusing BT discussions on toilet training, could it be those kids that have to go right now for longer than a few days/week are being trained too early? Or is that massively oversimplistic?

I have to say I can't easily envisage a situation where you are surrounded by shops in a busy city centre but none of them will let you use their loos.

I have spent many years looking after small boys (including one who was only just dry by the time he started school) and they have definitely 'watered the grass' al fresco on several occasions, but always behind a bush/tree. Having said that, we aren't a family that do 'shopping' as a leisure activity, so I think the only time I would have had them 'at the shops' would have been the supermarket, with plenty of loos! During Uni I worked for social services looking after disabled kids and I had absolutely no shame asking in cafes, shops or even offices if we could use their loos if the kids were caught short.

Never say never, but I think in the scenario in the OP I'd at the very least try and find a quiet alleyway, if not a bush.

ETA when I worked in Greggs we always let parents of small kids/pregnant women use our staff loo if they asked. Don't think it was 'company policy' as such, just seemed inhumane not to!

I think probably a bit simplistic. For starters you wuold have no idea how long the child in the OP had been toilet training. But I do also think there are lots of other factors at play - the distraction element, say, where they might know they need to go for ages but don't say until the last minute because everything else is more exciting.

Well, we're just starting out towards toilet training so direct experience, but as an adult I've had to cross my legs and hop because shopping centres often have a long queue in the ladies' toilets, cafes etc are usually cleearly marked as toilets only for paying customers, and so on. If you don't know the shopping centre or your child isn't good at giving notice then you're going to run into problems every so often.

Some angels can clearly hold their bladders for hours, other children can't. And better gutter than on the street. I know my mum held us over a gutter in the past. And how many people on this thread have peed in a dark alley when caught short on the way home from the pub? Especially any male readers!

Out of interest, Lois, do you think twice about where your dogs pee or mark on streets? I don't see any difference from a hygiene or disgust point of view. (Obviously poo would be different for both child and dog!)

I missed this before I posted.

I'm really not seeing the logic of that argument tbh - "weird" isn't a reason to find something unacceptable and the hygiene issues, which might be a logical consideration, are the same.

Essexmum - many many things are acceptable for a child to do that an adult isn't, imo. I'll never understand people who judge a child's actions by adult standards.