Is this acceptable behaviour (child related)?

Good points, hazel. Was just a random musing, especially as we ended up leaving it so late with A and I don't remember too many public accidents/near misses (maybe I just erased them from my memory though ?)

Zeb, I agree from a logical pov - it's the same stuff after all, and we all know urine is sterile. When I think about it sensibly it makes no sense to be so disgusted by a bodily fluid, maybe I'm a wee bit OCD. It's contextual isn't it? It would probably depend on the (apparent) age of the child too, I guess. Adult men peeing in the street is something I absolutely can't stand. It makes me feel distinctly ill. Again, not particularly logical.

(To contradict myself even further we are a family of campers and I have absolutely no issues with male or female al fresco bush-weeing in the cuntryside).

PS Zeb, thought you weren't here? ?

It's just BT I'm avoiding really now I'm back from hols but I'm not here that often ?

I think it is logical. Peeing on the street in sight of everyone is something people do in 3rd world countries with no plumbing. Its not socially acceptable in our society.

Not Lois, obviously, but I find that argument strange because there is a cultural taboo about humans peeing in public, in the west at least. That's why loos have doors and locks and why we teach our children to use them, isn't it? As Lois says, dogs wee in public - even though some of them look like they'd prefer a bit of privacy at times too. And no-one has ever become ill from dog pee on the street.

As for the original question, I suspect that when a child's got to go they've got to go, and better to pee in the gutter than have wet pants for the rest of the day.

Oh I see. Saw your reply on my neurosurgery post & wanted to say thanks but didn't want to seem too needy by bouncing again.

Glad you've not totally gone, Hitched needs you ?

How about the pissoires in Paris then? And the ones that pop up in some parts of central London at night? I don't think it's strictly Western custom to pee behind a locked door. If I remember right, some US schools didn't used to have (still don't?) doors on their toilets.

I'd also add that it's adult custom here (mostly) to pee behind a locked door. We're talking 2-5 year olds at oldest, most likely, they don't have the concept of privacy or embarassment about body parts and bodily functions that adults do and we don't apply adult standards to other parts of their lives.

And has anyone ever become ill from a human peeing in the street?

I agree with you on the final line!

WSS. I'm sure I've been frowned upon as being a skanky mother on a fair few occassions judging from this thread ? Grace (3.5) still never says she needs the toilet until she's bursting. Holding it to find a cafe, speak to the owner to check it's ok then finding said toilet just isn't an option "it's coming mommy!". That said, I do try and be discrete, but it's not always an option. We were once in Aldi when she needed to go; Aldi don't have customer toilets. We couldn't use the staff toilets as Securicor were there and no-one was allowed through the staff entrance. So, I had to ditch my shopping and take her outside to wee-very discretely by our car being hidden by the open car door. This was preferable to her wetting herself in the store as she does create quite a puddle ?

It was nothing to do with hygiene, as it happens, and I am perfectly happy to accept it may just be me that finds it gross.

I don't live in Paris, or the US and it definitely seems to be the norm , locally, to pee behind closed doors. Although at the studio often parents leave the door open, for young children or <gasp> I even take children to the toilet if asked. Not remotely similar to peeing in the street, imo.

If someone has worked out how to train dogs not to overscent, I am not aware of it, but happy to learn. I do, however, make sure they have been out in the garden before every walk.

L
xx

When I was a child people were forever holding their children over the gutter. Seriously. People toilet-trained much earlier then, I can't see how you'd have had much of a choice. I know even though I trained mine late, Rowan in particular is prone to not saying till she's desperate, or saying she doesn't need to go, and then begging to ten minutes later.

I genuinely don't see what the problem is, but then I've seen a lot of wee in my time, both at home and at work. Providing they're not of secondary school age, I'm fine with it. And I'd rather in a gutter than up an alley any day. Eewwww. I can't stand pissy alleys.

When my daughter was first toilet trained- sometimes she would tell me she needed a wee WHILST she was doing it. In a case like this, then yes, I would have whipped her over the nearest drain asap!!!

She is much better now, and I always take her to a toilet when I can, but if we cant find a toilet, I have no problems letting her wee in the nearest bush or whatever. I wouldnt actively seek out a drain though.

On a side note, I thought Boots always allowed young children to use their staff toilets. They wouldnt let me (well my 3 yr old) use their staff loos recently. We were in a town that I dont know well and I didnt know where any other toilets were. The only cafes nearby were kiosky type ones without any toilets. The lady in Boots said they couldnt let my 3 yr old use their toilets due to H+S. I did point out that if she did a wee on the floor it would be a bigger H+S problem that if they had let us use the loos in the first place!

When my daughter was first toilet trained- sometimes she would tell me she needed a wee WHILST she was doing it. In a case like this, then yes, I would have whipped her over the nearest drain asap!!!

She is much better now, and I always take her to a toilet when I can, but if we cant find a toilet, I have no problems letting her wee in the nearest bush or whatever. I wouldnt actively seek out a drain though.

On a side note, I thought Boots always allowed young children to use their staff toilets. They wouldnt let me (well my 3 yr old) use their staff loos recently. We were in a town that I dont know well and I didnt know where any other toilets were. The only cafes nearby were kiosky type ones without any toilets. The lady in Boots said they couldnt let my 3 yr old use their toilets due to H+S. I did point out that if she did a wee on the floor it would be a bigger H+S problem that if they had let us use the loos in the first place!

I used to work for Boots and we were never told children could/should use our loos. They could not have used ours anyway, they were up 2 flights of stairs.

Maybe its an urban myth then! I know when I was pregnant and needed the loo there, they were only too happy to let me use the staff loos so I just assumed it was company policy.

I used to work at Waitrose and young kids were always using the staff loos- also up 2 flights of stairs.

Of the various retail places I've worked in, the staff have usually kept their bags etc next to toilets and usually not had lockers.

For security reasons, the policy has either been no customers are allowed to use toilets or only children who are old enough to come and use the toilet by themselves, by which point they are usually past toilet training age. And yes, that's meant on occasion I've mopped floors

Isn't there some campagin to reopen public toilets due to a national shortage? I think some disability group were promoting this.

The idea that there's always a public toilet within say 5 mins of a small child, even in a city centre, is optimistic at best, I think.

But surely the urge to poo is as strong (if not stronger?) than the urge to wee and you don't see parents letting their kids curl one out on the pavement. What do the parents who don't mind a bit of alfresco weeing do under those circumstances? Or do some kids just have very leaky bladders and I'm just lucky that ours didn't? I suppose that is possible.

Well, perhaps the difference is that (short of the runs) a poo won't go straight through a child's pants and down their legs? So I suspect it's just a case of find toilet asap and evacuate offending item from knickers?

I think it's pretty accepted that children and adults have a broad range of bladder capacity - my family are atrocious, my father can't drive 60 miles frm Aberdeen to Dundee without a break. My H could probaby drive Aberdeen to London on one stop. ?

i used to work in an office, where the doorway was up an alley. and it used to stick to high heaven of urine every monday morning. (albeit i imagine from drunken blokes rather than toddlers.) paddling through the yellow puddles was fun too.

so i would definately prefer they use the drain option ?

[wisemonkey] Poo in a carrier bag [/WM] ?

Mine never seem to need to poo much when we're out (although I did once ask to use staff toilets at a fireplace showroom for my 3 year old!) ... I guess I'm one of those mums who doesn't think there's all that much to be disgusted about with a toddler peeing. [shrugs and walks off]

It's difficult sometimes to be out with a just toilet-trained child. Children have small bladders and are learning about the sensation of having to go, which often leaves them busting to go at the most innopportune moment.

Ideally I'd rather not have my child have to pee in public. (I don't like it, don't want to encourage it and it's hardly the most comfortable thing for them either.) But really needs must sometimes, especially when it's dicey whether any of the large high-street chain stores will let you use their loos - that is if they have one for a start. You really don't have the luxury of time or being able to guess. (And no way am I going to pick a child up who needs the loo to go marching round to find out!)

My mum was one who always would hold us out in the gutter/go behind a bush if we said we needed to go. It was horrible so we learned to hold it (probably worse) or go in a public loo or before we left the house whenever we had the opportunity.

<possibly speaks too soon> Funny about poos though - this has never been an issue with my children...<regrets possibly speaking too soon>

As you look down the alley way, you can see the, slightly more private, drain at the end of it. This is sort of at an angle to the high street, so although it's no distance, it is way more private.

L
xx

I think if I had no other choice then I would put MissSun over a drain, somewhere discreet but if there were cafe's about then i'd go in and buy a coffee and take her to the loo.

I was amazed whilst on holidays back in May, we were in a popular Majorcan resort, the main street was full of cafes and bars and there outside one of them under a tree a woman was holding her daughter so she could have a wee. That I just don't get but then I was surprised by a woman asking to use the toilet in an ice cream parlour without purchasing anything. I just wouldn't do it, i'd have to buy something.

My 3 year old daughter has only gone 'al fresco' in a park when the toilets were nowehere near. I have no qualms in taking her into a pub/cafe/restaurant/shop when we are out and about, although this did backfire a bit on a recent trip to Chester. Just before we got back to the car park she bellowed the usual "MUMMY I NEED A WEE" so that everyone within a 100 yard radius also knew. I went in Piccolino's restaurant and asked if would be ok to take my daughter to use their toilet and they were ok about it, so I sent my 80 year old mum in with her as she also wanted to go. I was stood outside that damned restaurant for about 15 mins wondering where the hell they were and what they were doing. Daughter finally emerges from the restaurant yelling "MUMMY I DID A POO".

Not sure I can answer really as it is totally depended on the exact circumstances. Ideally I would rather not allow Master Vixen to pee in public but totally depends on the particular situation.

At the weekend I went out to the shops and sat on one of the benches in the town centre to give Master Vixen a drink and some raisins. A young family came to sit next to me - mother, father, son and daughter. They had just come out of the clothes shop that I was sat outside with a large bag. They lifted the son up (aged about 7) so that he was standing on the chair. They then stripped him completely naked and put a new set of clothes on him, that they had just purchased. They then did the same thing with their daughter. When they were stripping the son off, I politely asked them if they would mind taking him into the changing rooms of the shop to change him rather than stipping him off next to me but they did not acknowledge a word I said.

I still find it very odd

I think it's a tough one, because of course ideally you'd never have to let your child wee in the street, but sometime when they've got to go they've got to go, and you don't have time to dash to the nearest shop or cafe or even dart down an alleyway. It really would be a last resort.

I'd much rather let them pee down a drain than make them learn how to control their bladder by deliberately letting them wet themselves, how humiliating, and well, cruel.

Absolutely WSS. Likewise from a hygiene POV- one presumably then has to turn round and go home (maybe on the bus or train) with a piss-soaked child- how grim and disgusting for absolutely everyone.

Re the OP- I do think it's a bit grim and have luckily never been in that situation myself, but I would rather a child weed into a drain than wet himself, I suppose. Children can be super-desperate very quickly. Clearly it may have just been someone who couldn't be arsed finding a loo and that's completely unacceptable but it could have been someone without any other choice than a child wetting himself, and there I'd just feel sympathy.

I have no problem with wees behind trees in the country etc.

Actually this thread has reminded me of the time when I lived just off the Old St roundabout and had men pissing in my doorway every single night. Now that's grim.