What do you think the perception is of people in 'social housing'?

I don't see what difference it makes wether you rent from the council or a private landlord. I lived on a council estate when I was in my final year at uni (h has left so we couldn't live in student accomodation and couldn't afford private rent) and it was great. The neighbours were friendly and the kids were no problem - one even asked to help h when he was changing a tyre on his car.

I thought they were decent people fallen on harder times who needed a hand with housing. Then I lived round the corner from a housing association road. I've been consistently amazed at the efforts of many of them to live up to their own stereotype.

This is what I have seen myself; One house regularly attracts several police cars and an ambulance. Another had all it's windows smashed by a gang of 30 apparently from the same road. A gang of the kids go out at night and shout; once they tied one to a lampost and threw stones at him while others jumped onto the roofs and fences of neighbours, damaging them. Their cars screech to a halt on the corner where one jumps out and they F and blind at each other. A young man rides a really noisy moped over the pavements at night, with no helmet and with other unhelmeted kids on it. Another man has sat on the roundabout drugged out of his head shouting abuse at the passing cars. I've seen one drunk woman crash into a road sign. Some of the front gardens are in a bad way. One guy who I know to be a decent bloke hangs his clothes on the front room curtain rail. Old caravans and unrepaired vehicles are a feature of the area.

On the plus side, neighbours sit out the front of their houses and talk to each other. The kids will chat to you. They use the open space beside the houses to have parties and put up bouncy castles. They are not lax with their Chistmas decorations.

Well I grew up on a council estate, as did pretty much everyone I knew until I went to uni. There I was in a minority and I was quite baffled with my friends perceptions of council estates which was that they were rough, etc and not my experience at all. The estate I grew up on was brand new and filled mainly with young families. They'd included shops, schools, playing areas and pubs when building it. It was (and still is) a nice area.

When people were allowed to buy council houses a lot did but not all so its a mix of private and council now but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

? at 'not lax with Christmas decorations' ?

I'm not sure about falling on harder times? I'd have thought that was only a small proportion of people?

I don't know about people who currently sign up for social housing but certainly where I'm from it was used by people who were on low incomes or were of an older mindset where only the rich looked at getting a mortgage - I guess from the old days where you could only get a mortgage if you had a decent deposit and then only 3.5 times the man's income (and the woman's was not taken into consideration). So in reality you didn't have to be rich but you did have to be able to save hard and it wasn't feasible for people on very low incomes.

I guess this is a good time to be a private landlord in some ways - lots of people who can't get a mortgage due to tightening up of lending but will not be able to get social housing as there isn't enough to go around anymore.

I will admit that my perception of social housing estates is not good - which is a direct throwback I guess from living in a city that boasted three of the worst estates in the country.

I find it hard to alter my perceptions as I haven't seen any different BUT I do try and not be judgmental.

Zeb - it is a great time to be a priavte Landlord. We couldn't sell our house and wanted this one so we bought this as well. Despite the fact our house has been on the market for 18 months we have had it rented out for 6 to a friend who is covering the mortgage easily. Having said that its a condition of our Buy to Let mortgage that we don't rent to people who are on DSS

I have lived in a council house all of my life.

I do think there is a great mixture of people, especially as people have pointed out a lot of council houses have been bought and sold again privately so half of the people in my street have bought their houses that way IYSWIM

Both myself and my OH work full time always have but as i had my children young i have never managed to save for a deposit to buy anywhere.

I love my house and have spent a fortune on it, as though we had bought it.

Were having the kitchen knocked though and French doors out onto the decking which i had done last summer.

I must admit that having lived in the same street since i was 8 years old i know that there are people in my street which have never worked, except worked the system and that also know they have no intention of working.

Sometimes it drives me nuts other times i dont think about it as there's nothing anyone can do ( its just how some people are )

I dont mind the fact that i live in a council house but some people are quite surprised that i do.

I think the general perception is that of the lizzy type person and i dont know if thats fair or not,

My estate is much better than it was 10 years ago and we have minimal crime and violence.

We did look into buying our house but the mortgage would be almost double what we pay in rent and i like my lifestyle to much for that ?

Honestly, I used to think that a great proportion of them were lazy loafers who beat up their grannies. Obviously, i realised that there were a great many cases which were exceptions ot the rule, but I can't honestly say I was hugely sympathetic (despite coming from a family which, on one side, was full of Irish immigrants who were all housed in council accommodation with the vast majority of them being hardworking (shipbuilders) people who simply didn't have the salaries to own their homes and only a smal proportion being complete and utter n'er do wells.)

What changed? I suppose, firstly, I grew up and started having an opinion of my own. however, it wasn't until I started specialising in regeneration projects a few years ago and went onto the streets in the sites of my two major projects (north solihull (birmingham) and the boot estate (liverpool) and started speaking to the people in these communities about what they actually wanted in terms of homes, amenities etc, that I realised the true picture. Not only are many many of these people trapped in a never ending cycle of poverty and disadvantage, but they also have to suffer the ignomy of being lumped together with the wastrels (who undoubtedly exist and who all too often have their own set of 'cycle of disadvantage/ mental health issues/ addictions to deal with). It was a heart breaking eye-opener and it didn't come a minute too soon for me. <resists urge to go off on tangental rant about need for complete overhaul of benefits system>

Interestingly, with what is going on in the economy and housing market just now, I think we are going to see a revolution in the nature of housing tenure in the near future. Even people with good jobs and prospects are going to find it hard to get mortgages and own their own homes, compared to 5, 10 years ago (when banks would let graduates borrow on huge multipliers with no deposits, simply on the strength of tehir projected future earnings). Whilst i think that in an ideal world, people should strive to own their own homes (i think it does give an element of social cohesion which is otherwise lacking) I don't think it is necessarily an ideal in all circumstances, and certanly not in the present economy. The all too often perceived 'shame' of not owning your house is going to go away and renting is going to become far more common. With that, the distinction between the private, affordable and social rented sectors is going to blur massively. For example, in the projects I described above, and one i'm working on in newcastle, it is a stipulation in the planning consents in these schemes that any new developemnt is a blend of these trhee types of housing (private, affordable and social), to try and break down the 'ghettoism' that we have witnessed increasingly over the years. Cue mass hysteria from the daily mail, no doubt (and therein lies your problem)

I think you're right Lou.

OK, here's where I'm coming from. We've been renting the same house privately since we got married (10.5 years ago) and it's been damp and mouldy for all that time, and too small since the 2nd child arrived and his disabilities meant he couldn;t share a room with his sister as planned. We stayed because there were no other houses for rent in the village and Mr G needs to live here for his work. Last year, when the housing crisis hit, we were offered the private rent of another house, but then the potential landlords sold it, didn't tell us, let us find out via a sold board going up, then when the sale fell through, tried to get us back, but Mr G no longer trusted them. We were then offered another house (due to the same housing crisis) but we couldn't quite afford the rent (more than double what we pay now, much nicer house though) and didn't dare risk it with the way things are at the moment - not the time to stretch ourselves.

Our landlady has now served us with a section 21 eviction notice as the co-owner has died and the property is (finally) going to be gutted, renovated and sold. There is a new build of 8 houses and 7 bungalows, half of which is Housing Association rent and the other half is undecided upon, maybe affordable housing (part buy, part rent). I'm a student, Mr G is self employed, so we're incredibly unlikely to get a mortgage, especially in the current climate, and our landlady has really left us with no option but to try for one of these houses. I'm not sure how I feel about it really ?. I do aspire to own my own home, but it's not realistic at the moment, and these houses are strictly prioritised for local people (from our village and the neighbouring one).

Will my home owning friends think I'm a freeloader?

Note to self: must buy more Christmas lights, lots more. And an inflatable Santa. No two.

I grew up on small council estate , my parents still live in the same house.

As a small child i never thought anything of it until my teens.People were friendly offers of help were often , it felt safe.

Once a man i worked with asked where i lived , once i told him he said "shouldn't you have a few kids by now & not know who the fathers are? " i was gobsmacked & the odd comment like that was made throughout my teens. I had quite a few family members live on the same estate , they all worked as did my parents.

However when we sold our first house we hadn't purchased another & briefly moved into a rented house on the same estate , a lot of the same people were still there.

I don't know whether i looked through more mature eyes or things had changed .On our street alone there were my H & i , our next door neghbours and maybe a handful of others that actually worked.

In summer we would be setting off to work & the house opposite would be setting up tables & music for a day of drinking & would still be there when i came home from work.

Shouting late at night was normal , at least once a week.

There were some lovely people . I couldn't move back for anything but my parents wouldn't move off for anything.

Ginni, i wouldn't be placing any great value on what your friend thinks. What is important is finding a secure roof over your head. What are the amenities like nearby? Will it be easy enough to get to uni/work/school for everyone in the family? Will you be reasonably close to family/friends? Is the are reasonably safe? many of teh enwbuild properties for teh social (or keyworker/affordable0 sector are vastly superior to those being touted by provate landlords, and often on the same street. There is no big neon sign which says 'dss', so if you like the property well enough then I think this could atually be a realy good opportunity for you to get a bit of security of tenrure while you finish uni. By that time, the economy will hopefully be in a different place and you can then assess whether to continue in the social rented sector, or look at privately renting or owning. You must be sad about leaving your home, but I think this could actually be a real opportunity for you guys.

LouM - I totally agree with what you've said. I think one of the reasons that I have a fairly positive view of social housing is that when the area my parents live in Aberdeen was built up in the 70s and 80s, the council took amore policy of mixing estates so there was always private and social housing together although the styles were quite different so you could see which was which.

The estate we are renting on just now is new and there is private and partial ownership houses side by side, you can't tell by looking which is which and I think that's probably even better.

I know some landlords get rough deals from their tennants but as someone who is a good tennant I've had some fairly awful landlords.

If mortgages are scarcer and more people will rent, then the stigma of renting even privately will have to be overcome. As part of that, I'd like to see practical ways of making both parties actually stick to their part of the tennancy agreement. I know technically I can take a landlord to court but only if I have money to burn and if (as we discovered to our cost) the landlord is not based in the UK you've got no chance of getting a fair deal - it's far to easy for someone to get away with breaching a contract and causing utter misery without penalty.

ginni - I'd jump at the chance in your situation - I hope it works out for you ?

I guess my experience, and opinion, is mixed. As a younger child, we lived in a South London council semi detached house for a few years until my mother remarried. It wasn't part of an "estate" as such, and the neighbours were nice. There were small housing estates nearby with maisonettes/small blocks of flats. it was the mid-late 70's and I don't recall my parents lamenting particular social problems etc.

Then, in my early 20's, not long after becoming parents, my then partner and I were given a beautiful, converted victorian garden flat in a residential road. Most of the neighbours were middle class professionals. We would never have been able to afford (at that time) to buy such a property, and renting seemed too "insecure". We were incredibly greatful. My dread as a young parent was to have been offered a tenancy in a tower block on some rough estate. In those days you got 3 "options"- if you refused them all, you were struck off the list. Anyway, I lived there for 17 years, before moving into privately rented accommodation for a year when I moved to Surrey and then my own home after I met my H. My sons who are students still live in the housing associatiuon property as I was able to sign the tenancy over to them.

I think my eyes were really opened as a social worker. I started out working for Wandsworth Council and had to do regular home visits (some solo, some joint with police or health professionals) on some very rough, sink estates. A few were definate "no goes" at any time....the irony that just a stones (well a bit more!) throw away from these estates were nicer social housing properties backing onto Putney Heath, was not lost-as my "patch" in the main, was the concrete jungle! That said, even on the roughest estates, I had parents who didn't conform to the stereotypes and endeavoured to make the best of their homes and situations.....they would nearly all beg me to try and influence the housing dept to transfer them though, even if they weren't overcrowded or had particular medical grounds. There was a desperate need to be "removed" from the environment due to fears both real and imagined of what remaining there would mean, particularly if they hadn't the resources to afford to privately rent or buy.

PS Ginni, after a drunken sunday lunch just before christmas and attendant trolley dash round homebase, I am now the proud owner of a ten foot inflatable snowman which I will gladly courier over to you on November 1st, just in time for getting the deccies up. ? ? (I am of course joking- about the last bit that is. Unfortunately, I do own the snowman. ?)

I grew up on in social housing and my mum still lives in one today (both my parents were ill/disabled).

I find now that I have a mix of friends, some from my old days and some from the last 10 years. I find some of my newer friends perceptions of social housing quite awful and narrow minded, and their comments about scumbags/shopping at Asda/drinking cans of strongbow and special brew/beating up grannies and stealing cars quite insulting. As soon as I mention I grew up with those "scumbags" their tune is that well I don't now and I am nothing like them.

I will admit some people from this part of town are people in trouble, but most of them just want to live an easy life and make something for themselves. Most are well educated people and work hard for a living. The stereotypes are just that really, not always a true picture.

As an aside I spent some of my childhood growing up in White City. I remember being at uni and some people looking scared that I lived there and actually survived and they thought I was "hard" ? .

I am quite shocked at peoples perceptions towards this, is 'social housing' the same as a Council House? If so, my mum and dad were both brought up in one, so was Mr K. My paternal grandmother paid her rent to the Council Offices every week. They all have lovely houses and they are hard working people. My Nana never wanted to buy her house, but my Grandfather persuaded her, working class people just didn't have mortgages seemingly in those days [laiugh]

I really am shocked though, if I have read this right

My great-aunt lives in a council house, and my grandmother did until she died. Because of that, I suppose I have the unconcious assumption that all people in council houses are sweet, little old ladies who worked hard all their lives and now feed stray cats, as those are the only people I know who actually live in one!

There's a block of housing which is part owned by a housing association near where I live. You often see the children playing together, and they all seem to be friends with their neighbours.

It's a bit of a broad term - social housing seems to encompass a wide range of housing from the roughest council estates to affordable housing/part ownership schemes for key workers.

When I lived in London, I rented a lovely flat in a nice area which there was no way I could afford to buy. We seem to have a curious attitude to housing in this country where it's deemed better to buy a property in disrepair/dodgy area/with tiny rooms etc than rent something which might be nicer to live in. I don't see the point in living in a crap house just to be a home owner if you can rent something much nicer.

When I was growing up, many 'normal' people who worked hard lived in council houses. I don't think there was the same need to own your own home as there is now. And it wasn't the stigma that it seems to be now.

My gran lives in a council house - hers is the only one in a block of 4 which isn't now privately owned. I think part of the problem is that many of the good 'social housing' in decent areas was bought through the right to buy schemes meaning that the remaining stock is often undesirable and the criteria to qualify for social housing has become so much narrower due to the lack of supply in many areas, that many people who would previously lived in council houses can't anymore.

If the current situation with mortgage availability continues, we may have to rethink our attitudes towards home ownership as many more people will be unable to find funding to buy a home.

Lou - watch out - you're sounding almost like a soft leftie ?

R-A, there isn't really a 'left' or 'right' view on this at the current time and in fact, the conservative party thinktank's recent reports on regeneration pretty much supports my own views. ?

My nana always lived on a council estate and i loved visiting her when i was younger, there always seemed to be a real community feel about where she lived and most of them had lived there for years so knew one another.

I see know though that the estate that she used to live on (she's now in Sheltered Accomodation) is rife with drug dealers and just generally trouble makers and i suppose now that's an association i make with most council estates, which i know i shouldn't do and i shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

I personally have a very mixed perception of people who live in social housing. We live on an ex-council estate, some houses are privately owned and others are still council houses. Our neighbours both sides are council owned, all have jobs and great kids. Many of our neighbours are the same and we couldn't wish for better people to live near us, we all rally round when someone has problems and its fab. My neighbours would do anything for their kids and we have all been campaigning to the council to try and make the area a safer and better place to live.

From another perspective the two streets either side of ours are full of the kind of people that most people probably imagine people in social housing to be. Many of the kids and adults have asbos, we have a drug dealer on one of those streets, the kids are out until all hours drinking and causing criminal damage and many of the girls <16 have kids of their own already. The parents couldn't careless about their kids, I found one girl passed out near our house with a guy trying to get her jeans off and chased him away and took her home and all the mother could say was 'oh has the little *** been drinking again' ?. This same parent was the one who stopped out campaign of getting the lane shut where the kids all drink 'because they would have no-where to go', I'd like them to move into our house and see how they like it having to live next to where the little drunkards spend their evenings ?

Waaah, thanks Lou ? Sounds like just what I need. You don't have a Santa that climbs up the chimney do you? That might be the touch I need.