Church Wedding vs Civil Ceremony

It's about I interjected with my favourite atheist bugbear...it was going to happen sooner or later...

Being "agnostic" is not the middle ground between believing in god and not believing in god. Being "agnostic" means that you don't know/do not think it possible to know, and can apply to both believers and atheists.

Most people along the belief spectrum are agnostic i.e. they don't claim to "know" that their belief is some kind of absolute truth. It's only the fundies who would claim to be "gnostic" - "I know God exists, and I'll tell you something, he hates you" or "There is no god/s, and anyone who thinks god/s exists is stupid" (have parodied fundies on both sides, for a bit of balance!).

As you were....

I don't know - I describe Ant as agnostic because he thinks there might be a possibility of something out there but doesn't lean one way or another as he doesn't feel like he knows.. whereas I quite strongly believe there is no God, so I describe myself as atheist. I have a belief in nothing, he doesn't really have a belief either way.

I wouldn't tell anyone off for having different beliefs, or think they are less intelligent than me, but I still wouldn't call myself agnostic. I have a belief. That belief is that there is no God or higher power.

I don't think it is just fundamentals who claim to 'know' that god exists. I have heard many ordinary religious people assert exactly that - surely that is what faith is?

Anyway we are having a civil ceremony because we are both atheists.

yeah, well cant argue there. For example my boy is 'catholic' but actually just Christian. He believes in God but he doesn't believe in the bible. Me, I more pagan. what goes around comes around sort of thing, I believe in 'something' but don't believe in religion persay. I think saying your agnostic has become a term easy to understand meaning when someone asks 'do you believe in God?' of replying with 'its complicated, dont ask'

???? Christianity means following the teachings of, and believing in, the existence of Jesus Christ as Son of God, which is the New Testament of the Bible. So you couldn't be Christian but not "believe" in the Bible. That doesn't make any sense.

*shrug*

The boy is beyond confused. Trust me. I'm happy in my non-committed belief ways of 'meh' but him, oh nelly. every time religion comes up in our house we thread circles with the same conservation we've had for years but thats another story and something I'll smile and nod at now when he speaks about it.

Civil for us. It's not that I don't believe in God but I've just never been one for going to Church so it didn't feel it was right just to do it because I was getting married.

Civil for us as well, the above describes my OH to a tee ! oh and im a second timer who did it "properly" 1st time around lol

Exactly this.

Ha sorry forgot the quote!

Exactly this!

Yup, this here too.

Partner and I could get married in America, I suppose (since her state will have gay marriage as of August 1st, HOORAY), and have a religious wedding there in a compliant church. But she's from a Jewish family, I'm from a Catholic one, we're both atheists with strongly negative feelings towards religion in general, and I get crabby when people with no real religious inclinations get married in a church for the pretty pictures.

Nice wee humanist ceremony for us.

Please don't shrug at Christianity. I find it offensive and very hurtful. It may not matter one iota to you, but to dismiss someone else's spiritual beliefs is pretty poor form.

Were quite looking forward writing our own vows for the Civil Ceremony, outta curiosity would you get to do that in church?

Oh no, please don't see it that way Custard. Not at all! No, I shrug HIS situation. I've tried to talk to him this faith-belief thing but it like trying to pull a rusty nail out of wood! He kinda shuts down, like his had a crisis of faith (even a gradually one over years) but won't talk about it.

Please understand I have the upmost respect for people and their beliefs, kinda a little envious since I don't have something that solid to rely on. I just seems to plod about with mine. So sorry dear you thought I shrugged you, I didnt. Just my boy situation that the dear in the headlight reaction I have to it. Forgive me?

Civil for me - it was cheaper!

Show me evidence to support your belief

I don't believe that god, in the many forms he has been described or presented to me, exists. I do not hold a belief that there is no god - that would be dogmatic and has no supporting evidence (indeed, I don't see how it can even generate supporting evidence). As these are the two major problems I (and most atheists) have with the premise that "god exists", it's a dodgy statement for an atheist to make (even if it is the de facto position for atheists).

ETA: sorry, it sounds like I'm lecturing. I'm not, I just really like this subject (and spend a lot of time talking and thinking about it).

We're having a civil ceremony as neither of us has followed religion for many years and the idea of getting married in a church was never even considered by us. This did raise a bit of a commotion with OHs mother who believes that we should get married in a church as we were raised Catholics and it's disrespectful to our families not to do so, my mother thankfully does not agree and is happy for us to do whatever we please. We gently explained to OH's mother that we would feel hypocritical getting married in a church when neither of us is practicing religion.

This, I'm happy with the compromise and I get to wear 2 dresses ?. Plus the chaplain who is conducting the blessing is from my work place and it's the icing on the cake for me

Is it possible to have "faith" in the existence of something if you "know" it exists?

I know I have a cup of tea next to me (well, I know insomuch as my senses tell me there is a cup of tea next to me). Therefore, I don't have faith that there is a cup of tea next to me.

I have faith that Boy will make me a cup of tea tomorrow morning

Faith is belief without evidence. You don't need to have faith in your cup of tea because you can see it, feel it and drink it (enjoy!). There is no proof for god, therefore religious people must have faith in order to believe. My argument is that many, if not most, religious people feel this faith as knowledge/the truth. So I don't agree with you that most regular believers are agnostic - they believe that god is real.

Btw do you really not know whether Santa exists...?

He he, perhaps the believers among my friends and family are more wishy-washy than most? Or perhaps more intellectually honest?

I have plenty of circumstantial evidence that Santa Claus exists. It was gathered annually during my childhood and comprises the following: presents appearing under a tree, consumption of brandy/biscuits and the occasional trace of hoof marks in the snow outside our house. Just because my parents told me that it was them all along does not prove it was them all along. They could just be stealing credit

Santa wanted a 4pack of Newcastle brown according to my dad. Tool me years to make the connection.

Exactly this for us too! I was really uncomfortable with the idea as we're not religious so just searched until I found a venue that was pretty enough for him (a barn) and will have readings etc to make the ceremony longer/more individual and that's what we've gone for!

I need no evidence - I have faith in the absence of anything ? I'm not saying I know, but that I have faith.

Church, I feel a connection to the church itself, great nan and gdad, nana and gdad, mum and dad all married there, my brothers and I christened there and my Nana (one of the most special people in my life) is now sadly buried there.

Civil ceremony for my catholic born French boy and my Jewish born self.

Was wonderful as it was all about just us two, nobody else!

I don't take any moral issue about people getting married in a church who may not have the appropriate beliefs - as posted above, you could want to be married in the same church as parents, g-parents, which may transcend your own views on god, or religion. Appreciate I am definitely in the minority in the hitched consensus on this one! But then I would probably be dispassionate about it, given I would describe myself as an atheist.... albeit not an overtly militant one (more covertly).

I guess you can't have a church wedding on the beach...so civil it is eh

Civil ceremony for us too

Im a non-believer but studied religion for a few years - particularly Hinduism which is just a beautiful religion! I think people who do believe are amazing an I am very envious but I was bought up in a very non-believing family that were all about science so I don't think I actually have the ability to believe. Not that I'm complaining about my upbringing :p

Also agree that marrying in church is hypocritical and have had many debate with my parents about this (the married in church because it was the thing to do in those days). I especially dislike it when they decide to get married in a church for the nice photos!

Of course! No problem.

Civil ceremony for us, neither of us to to church so would seem hypocritical in a way x

We are getting married in a Norman church which was in ruin and deconsecrated before being repaired and now used for civil ceremonies. It's also built on a Pagan site. We are both atheists but loved the building. I'm a fan of old interesting buildings so I loved the history of this place. Plus we can have both ceremony and reception there. We wanted a small wedding and struggled to find many old and interesting venues for less than 40.

We had a civil ceremony in a lovely (but unconsecrated) priory, as my husband is an atheist. We had a blessing about 20-30 mins later, back in the priory, as a compromise for me.

I think the are plus and minuses for both. I prefer the more traditional wording of a church wedding, which you are absolutely not allowed to crib from for your civil ceremony. Even the non religious parts. On the other hand, you have far more flexibility at a civil ceremony, and photography is very unlikely to be an issue. I always think it's a shame when a vicar won't allow any photos of the ceremony, as that's the whole purpose of the day.