Michael Jackson - RIP

I've already had 2 unsavoury texts from my mum of all people, I texted back "Ur mean" and hopefully she'll not send me any more

He was an excellent musician, I feel for his kids and family

WHHS - I would say that Britney is a singer and pop star - for example. MJ sold millions of records and more importantly influenced other artists and the music of his time. A "singer and pop star" would not have that effect. But as Roobarb says I think the real talent of his died a good few years ago when his personal dramas became the focus of his life and not his music. that would all have had an effect on why his music went downhill.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that as I feel a songwriter is a musician and he was WAY more than a pop star and singer. The guy was an icon who shaped music of the future. Yes I am sure a lot of that was as a collaboration with an amazing producer but it's just that, a joint effort. His Thriller video for instance has pretty much been in the top 10 on iTunes since it started, that's over and above pop star status, surely?

I'm with you - I've never got the whole MJ 'phenomenon'. Yes, some good tunes, some flashy videos but all the rest was just hype and bollocks about his increasingly bizzarre lifestyle choices. He was certainly very clever at manipulating the press.

Some of the stuff flying around at the moment is reminiscent of the Diana dying / funeral outpourings and just as ridiculous.

WBoopS - I enjoy some of his earlier stuff but I don't know if it's for the music or if it's nostalgia.

It's incredibly sad when anyone dies so young, leaving 2 young children, but even more so when they are exposed to the stories that are already flying around and, sadly, what is to come. I think it's the way of the world we live in when everyone wants to cash in and have their 15 minutes of fame, in spite of hurting the nearest and dearest of the deceased. It smacks of a lack of integrity of some people IMO.

My colleague today had an odd insight to her own thoughts on his death. She said that he was narcissistic (sp) and planned his death before the start of his concerts so that he could die a legend. I do find the whole conspiracy and psychology theories a bit hard to swallow, why is it that people have to explain why something like this happens, why do they find it hard to accept that even stars can have heart attacks etc. Strange.

Sorry to have written and run - I didn't mean to post something so possibly controversial and leave it.

I agree he was a fabulous songwriter and yes to being a fabulous dancer and choreographer and a massive influence on just about all music that has come since then, but I just don't view him as a musician - he was a writer & performer. But then that's just my personal opinion. For me a musician is someone like McCartney, Lennon, Prince, Chris Martin etc.

I loved him around the time of Thriller and Bad but it has all been downhill since then - but what music to leave behind!

I'm off to see Take That very shortly and am wondering if there will be some sort of tribute to him from the band tonight.

But MJ did the exact same things as the people you have mentioned, he played, sang, wrote, performed. He was arguably the biggest star in the world, I'm not sure what else he could have done to be classed as a musician if the above isn't enough ?

Re: TT, I wondered if they would do something to. Not sure what though.

I meant doesn't play a musical instrument on stage as part of the act.

Take That were bloody fantastic and dedicated 2 songs to him - Wooden Boat and then Rule the World.

In the build up there were 3 or 4 Jackson songs played and the crowd went bonkers for them.

The press are saying there is a possibilty that MJ could be number one on the charts this week. I think this is the first time a big star has died since the way the charts are measured and it will be interestng to see if he can get to number ne this week, t would be geat if he could.

Er... you might want to think the logic of that statement through! ?

Unless you're trying to claim that Luciano Pavarotti wasn't a musician.

Or indeed a conductor like Simon Rattle - I mean, he "doesn't play a musical instrument on stage as part of the act" either.

WHS.

He was a musician but chose not to play an instrument on stage (although I have seen footage of him playing the piano on stage). Although I do take mild offence at the voice not being considered an instrument. Does that mean the ability to play the clarinet or whatever somehow outranks an incredible singer in terms of musicality? There are many many singers who aren't just told what melody to sing and repeat parrot fashion. Like MJ, the creativity behind the songwriting and the vocal arrangement is often where the key to a great song lies, not necessarily from 3rd trombone or the genius placement of a triangle added in at the recording stage. I am a heyooge Quincy Jones fan and I've a fair idea what his response would be to the suggestion that MJ was not a musician or that the finished product was predominately due to his producing genius.

Whether people agree in terms of personal taste about what equates to a good song/artist, from anyone's perspective he was an incredibly talented man.

Shall we have a vote on which of these two would be considered the superior musician? ?

I agree. Not my choice of listening material, but I don't think you can deny the effect his music has had on other artists/music generally.

What is odd is that I feel like I am somehow wrong in not being all that bothered. I think it's the Diana effect - when there is so much outpouring of grief going on you start to wonder if you're missing something

L
xx

I don't think it's especially odd - the high point of Jackson's career was a good two and a half decades ago, I didn't know him personally, and while I can certainly appreciate the numerous tragedies of his life, they haven't touched me any more over the last 48 hours than they did when they were originally happening.

Of the three celebrity deaths at the end of this past week - Jackson, Farrah Fawcett and Steven Wells - there's no question that the latter is the only one that made me genuinely upset, even though he had only an infinitesimal fraction of the others' public recognition (even to the point where Wikipedia was debating only last week whether he was notable enough to deserve an entry!). But maybe that's because Wells was born in the same decade as me, moved in similar circles (I never met him, but I know quite a few people who knew him very well indeed) and had a very similar sense of humour - and, from an entirely selfish perspective, there was a far greater likelihood of him producing more work in a similar vein to the stuff that established his reputation. I never really felt any particular affinity with the other two, so their passing just makes me think "oh".

None of which is to dismiss Jackson's cultural importance, which was clearly colossal - it's hard to believe that it was once a very very big deal indeed for a black artist to not only cross over into the mainstream but dominate it to the point where one of his albums is still the best-seller of all time. And that's a record that will probably never be broken, given the fragmentation of the music industry since then.

And here's Germaine Greer with one of the most intelligent pieces on Michael Jackson I've read in a long time:

...and I think that last point underscores why many of us aren't especially heartbroken by his death (or at least not over and above the death of anyone else).